A Life Crafted for the Outdoors with Orange Blaze

Note: This transcript was generated by Otter.ai with light human correction

Mills Kelly

Welcome to The Green Tunnel, a podcast on the history of the Appalachian Trail. My name is Mills Kelly, and I’m your host. Today we are doing something a little different. We’re headed to Florida. I mean, who doesn’t want to go to Florida in the summer?  Now I know the AT doesn’t run through Florida, but the state has a lot of great trails, including the Florida Trail. And one of the best ways for you to learn about the FT – not AT –  is by listening to Orange Blaze. This podcast highlights the experience of hikers along the Florida Trail and is hosted by Misti ‘Ridley’ Little, who thru-hiked the AT with her husband. The FT is about 1,500 miles long and runs across Florida from Big Cypress National Preserve in the south to the Gulf Islands National Seashore in the western end of Florida’s panhandle. In this episode, Misti talks with Johnny Molloy, who is the author of more than 80 books, many of which are trail guides. They discuss his FT thru-hike and his life, which involves spending a lot of time camping and writing books. I hope you enjoy this episode and will check out other episodes of Orange Blaze. 

Misti Little 

You're listening to Orange Blaze a Florida Trail Podcast.

Johnny Molloy 

I always like to jump in the creek and I'll do that I have some odd practices are not normal. I don't treat my water and just drink it everywhere. So considered do as I say and that is that do advice but I just drink the water a mainly sleep out unless I absolutely have to have some kind of covering. Now in Florida A lot of times when it's warm you got to battle the mosquito so you got to have at least a screenshot. One thing about my my thru hike of the Florida trail was I took a chance I just used a little netting screen netting with no hiking poles. No. Just the netting that went into a ball about the size of a water bottle. And then from my shelter I use nothing but a poncho. And I made the hallway. Wow. Yeah.

Misti Little 

Welcome back to a fresh season of the podcast. I'm your host Misty Ridley little and that was Johnny Malloy. Johnny is author of more than 80 books. Many of them are trail guides to various regions in the United States. But he's written several memoirs as well, including his Florida trail memoir, hiking the Florida trail, you love it under miles, 78 days, two pairs of boots and one heck of an adventure about his 2006 thru hike. And this episode Johnny and I chat about his thru hike, but also about how he crafted a life that involves spending a lot of time camping, being outdoors while writing books as well. He's got a lot of wisdom from those years outside. And I don't think it will skip any hiking or nature enthusiast who finds themselves rearranging their life to spend more time outdoors. I'm excited for this fresh new season and look forward to sharing a lot of new conversations as the coming months go by. All right onto this episode with Johnny. All right, well, thank you, Johnny for coming on the orange face podcast tonight. Maybe you want to take a little bit of time to introduce yourself, who you are and where you're from. You know, folks may or may not have read your Florida trail book. But there's a good chance out of all the things you've written they've read one of your other books. So maybe you had to start from there and introduce yourself a little bit.

Johnny Molloy 

We're good. I'm Johnny Malloy, and outdoor writer based in Johnson City, Tennessee. And the outdoors is my life. And I've turned it into a career. I've been very blessed in that. And I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee, a complete Flatlander who never camped out a day in my life. And then I moved to Knoxville, Tennessee to go to the University of Tennessee. And I met a guy there who liked backpack and, and right next to Knoxville is Great Smoky Mountains National Park. And he took me back back in one time. And I thought it was the greatest thing that I've ever done. And here we are four decades later and went backpacking three days ago.

Misti Little 

Yeah, you, you definitely get out and about that is for sure. Whether it's just for fun or for any of your work projects. So I mean, how so you got into hiking by going out with a friend in college, but how did you get into Were you always a writer or did you get into the writing part of that later?

Johnny Molloy 

I graduated with a degree in economics from the University of Tennessee, and I became kind of a backpacking bomb, kind of like a ski bum and And I just back bartending on Friday and Saturday night and then a backpack during the week. And over a period of time, I've accumulated over 400 Nights backpacked in the Smoky Mountains National Park. And a friend of mine who actually had a writing degree, said, You have to write a book about your adventures, and I'll help you. And I actually took out a pen and paper and wrote it by longhand, and he typed it for me. And we got this book together. And this was before the internet. So I just went to some bookstores and found some addresses and sent off a query letter saying, I have a adventure story book about the Smokies my backpacks in the Smokies. And lo and behold, one publisher said, Yeah, we're interested in that type of memoir book. And another publisher said, we're not interested in your memoir book, but based on your experience and writing ability, would you write a hiking guide to the Smokies? So I got two books with one query letter, which is almost unheard of.

Misti Little 

Yeah, that's cool.

Johnny Molloy 

So, so then I got a contract for for a book. And I took it to the bank and got one of these newfangled laptop computers, borrowed the money from the bank, and then wrote the book on this computer, rewrote it again, you know, cleaned it up, and all that, turned it in did a good job. And my first book came out in 1995. And now we've got over 80 books in public published.

Misti Little 

Wow, wow. So is that first book? Is that still in print? Or can we find it enough? Yeah,

Johnny Molloy 

they actually reissued a 20th anniversary edition. It's called trial by trail. It's true adventures in the Smokies that also woven in with Smokies lore, and backpack and tips. And speaking of backpacking tips, interestingly, I just turned in a book called backpacking, Florida, where I've got 40 Different backpacking adventures in the Sunshine State. And woven into that our backpacking, how to and stuff like that how to things along with the where to wear this backpack in Florida book?

Misti Little 

Yeah, wow. Well, I'm gonna definitely have to find that first book, because I'm very intrigued. And I like to read over memoirs, just to get a feel of how things were. Before there was a crowds. Yeah,

Johnny Molloy 

yeah, absolutely. At that time, because it does capture a moment in time, the the world of the park and the outdoors and the mindset of the people and, and mountain viewpoints of that. of that time.

Misti Little 

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that's cool. We could talk about that upcoming book towards the end when we get to your other projects that you've got on the agenda. But so you know, you said you spend, you know, a ton of time outdoors every year, and I think you have it kind of catalogued on your website, but maybe it's changed. But what's the most recent tally of nights in the outdoors will

Johnny Molloy 

have averaged over 150 nights a year camping out for the past 30 straight years. So that's over 4500 Nights camped out. That includes backpack and canoe camping, car camping, working on a book camping, and I've stuck with that. And it's been just such a blessing. You know, people say, have you seen that movie? Have you seen this show? Have you done an event outside of them? You would not believe the sites in nature that I've seen that you've got to go experience firsthand to truly appreciate.

Misti Little 

Right. Now, do you have any favorite places? I mean, you live near the spooky so I'm sure you get down there quite often. But is that one of your favorite places to go? Are there some other places that you really like to get to every year?

Johnny Molloy 

Well, if I did have another favorite place, I wouldn't say the Smokies is the greatest of the greatest and been blessed to backpack to over 800 nights just in that park and just was up in the Smokies last week backpacking it is a gorgeous place. Florida has a lot of great places. I've spent the better part of 25 Straight winters in Florida, camping out the whole time exploring it. A few other great places that I really like Shenandoah National Park in Virginia. The Ozarks great for hiking and canoeing and and also the Boundary Waters Canoe Area wilderness in Minnesota. Yeah. Then up there like 16 times. And that was the longest trip of my life. We two years ago, we went for a 21 day trip through there.

Misti Little 

Yeah, that's on my high on my list of places I want to get to, at some point. Logistically, I've got to get up there. And yeah, but I would love to explore that area. I know. It's becoming a little more popular, but it's still kind of out of a way enough that I think it's pretty quiet. Is that been your experience?

Johnny Molloy 

You know, it's just like anywhere, there's busy places and there's quiet places, the harder the harder you want to work, the more solitude you can find. Right? But the but but the bottom line is this. Life is for living and adventures are for heaven.

Misti Little 

I like that motto. So you do a lot of short trips, but and I know the forest trail you through hiked it, but are there any other like three hikes that you've done? Or you've done some long distance paddling as well? What are some of those memorable trips?

Johnny Molloy 

Well, paddled from the Okefenokee Swamp and Georgia down the Swanee River, and all the way to the keys in Florida one time. That's cool, that was fine, and wrote a book about it. It's about Florida's history. And I'll also did a complete rafting trip through the entirety of the Grand Canyon. That was also three weeks. And that was a lot of fun. In backpacking through hike the shell towel we trace in Kentucky. And that's it for long trails. As far as continuous hikes.

Misti Little 

Yeah. Do you? Do you have any desire to do any long distance like thru hikes like that? Or is that not really your speed?

Johnny Molloy 

I would know I would. This is writing these outdoor guides is my one and only job. So I like to go where the books take me. Yeah. And so so I'm feel blessed beyond measure that I actually get paid to do what I love for a living. And if somebody wants to pay me to hike along trail, then I'll do it.

Misti Little 

Right. Right, right. So you go where you can make the income but also be outside enjoying life as well. So I understand. So absolutely. Like last

Johnny Molloy 

summer. I wrote this book called hike in the Berkshires mountain range in Western Massachusetts. It was just beautiful, get to spend the summer up there camping out hiking, and just enjoying the, the sights and the people and everything. And then live in the middle of working on another book called hike in New Jersey. And that's when I said you guys had written the book, but they didn't want to update it. So I just did a complete knit redo of the book. And I can tell you that hiking in New Jersey is a lot better than what a lot of people may think I've been happily surprised. I've done half the book last fall in and I'm going ahead this spring and doing doing it the other half of the book. And that proves the adage that everywhere is beautiful. You just got to know where to look. Yeah, that's what I do. I help I help people find the place the beautiful places because they're busy in their lives. And I hopefully will save them the trouble of making the mistakes and go into the wrong places. And you know, steered on the right places.

Misti Little 

Yeah, then the New Jersey segment of the Appalachian Trail was definitely much prettier than I imagined when you know, we're through hike the Appalachian Trail. And I got there. I was like, Wow, this place is really pretty amazing. And it's probably one of my favorite sections of that middle Atlantic area for sure.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, yeah, that Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. Has that segment of the Appalachian Trail and a lot of connectors. And it was a it's a really good area. You know, just because the highest point was one thing is that when people talk about backpacking, they almost always think it's got to be mountain backpack. Yeah, really. You're you're only limiting your own self by saying I gotta hike only in the mountains. Because if everywhere look like East Tennessee, that nowhere else would be special. So we're glad that everywhere looks different.

Misti Little 

Right. Now, what does it take to to write these books? I mean, I'm sure you've you've 80 bucks down, you probably have a format ready, but I don't know. I don't know if they vary by publisher at all. So maybe your formats have to change, but do you have it down pretty easily? Yeah, I mean, do you go like do you interview people when you're going out or is it just you hiking and you're scouting and and looking to see what's available in towns for discernment.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, yeah. So so what I do is just kind of peruse all the possible sources of the best hikes for an area, and then kind of gather a master list of potential hikes. And then I literally go out and hiking. And that's the reason I do what I do. So I can do what I do. Get up there and take the notes and photographs and GPS for maps and such. But really the key to what I do is I I'm accurate, and timely. And I give the publisher and the reader what they want. I think about what would I want to know about this hike if I were the guy going on for the girl going on it? And what would I want to know? Was this a good hike? Because see, the thing is people are betting their time and their money, that Johnny Malloy knows what he's talking about. And I think about that all the time, and I want to give them the experience they desire and let them make the most of their precious time.

Misti Little 

Right. Has there been any place that you've gone, that maybe you went in with some preconceived notion of it not being great? And that came out? Were like, oh, my gosh, this is a really great trail. Like any hidden gems out there that you've come across?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, well, I wrote a book called hiking waterfalls in Pennsylvania. And I didn't think I didn't think the waterfalls or the woods and stuff was going to be that good. And I was completely wrong. In fact, the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area of the Delaware River divides New Jersey from Pennsylvania, and on the Pennsylvania side are some gigantic beautiful waterfalls that make great hiking destinations. And the they've got a lot of large backcountry areas in Pennsylvania not like the giant National Forest. They got around here like Cherokee National Forest and who's getting the Nano Halo. I mean, there's a million over a million acres of national forests within 100 miles of Johnson City, Tennessee. But yet they have in Pennsylvania, a lot of large, I can hike in areas and backpack and a significant segment of the Appalachian Trail.

Misti Little 

So was it yours to free us free through hike on the floor trail? Was it a field guide that brought you there to thru hike it or was that something you just had on your list? You're like, I'm gonna go through I get I've got some time.

Johnny Molloy 

When I first got into this book, right in business, and he actually even before that, if you backpacked a lot in the winter in the Smoky Mountains National Park is very challenging. And so I was just flipped through an atlas and I saw looked down in South Florida, and I saw these big giant splotches of green national forests and national parks and stuff. So I said, Why not go down there. And so I convinced a publisher to let me do a book down there. And then that book led to another book and it led to a bunch of books. And so I was spinning the winters down in Florida paddlers guide to Everglades National Park, and so forth. And I thought, how can I spend another winter in Florida and get paid for it? And so that I did, and I proposed to the University Press of Florida to write a an adventure story book about thru hike in the Florida trail. And nobody had written one and I'm sure you're familiar with all the memoir type books about the Appalachian Trail, but nobody done. What about the Florida trail?

Misti Little 

And I think yours is still the first year this was the first book that was ever published, right?

Johnny Molloy 

Yep. The only one that I know of, but so so. Got a contract for that. And the next thing I know somebody was dropping me off at the trailhead.

Misti Little 

Yeah, I mean, you said you'd already you've done some stuff in Florida. But were you that familiar with the Florida trail at all? Did you do?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah. Sounds very familiar with that backpack. A bunch of it. Okay. I've hiked it. I did a book called hiking trails of Florida's National Forest parks and preserves. So I've hiked every trail in Florida has national forests.

Misti Little 

Oh, wow. That's impressive. Yeah.

Johnny Molloy 

So people begging, you know, I mean, I love it. I love that kind of stuff. I mean, I just love being outside.

Misti Little 

So yeah, I mean, I think it's cool because you go to these more obscure trails that People aren't necessarily going out to and, you know, some of them are harder to get to than than others. And, you know, some may or may not have something interesting on them. They're just a nice trail. But they may not have anything that the general public always wants to see. But I think it's cool that you've done all of them.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah. And while I was familiar with the Florida trail, and so there, I found myself on Loop Road down there, and the Big Cypress National Preserve, which I believe has the most unique backpacking in the lower 48. By the way, there's a lot of aspects of the Florida trail that are unique that people don't give it credit for. It's really, I was reminded of that working on this backpack in Florida but but there was on Loop Road now they've moved the beginning of the Florida trail, a few miles north of the US 41 Visitor Center, but at that time, there I stood. And I was kind of nervous, my friends dropped me off, and I'll stand there just kind of get my mojo together. And then this guy comes up to me and says, Excuse me, in when you dropped this, and it was my wallet 100 bucks in it. So that was a pretty odd start to the thing. But then after that, it was just a beautiful experience. And it really affected it did affect my life after thru hike in the Florida trail, that I just realized that nature is the the manifestation, the physical, visible manifestation of God's glory. And from beginning to end solid and really recommitted my life to God after that hike was over.

Misti Little 

Now, when you're there at the Bing, getting of trail of Loop Road, and you hike this trail in 2006, I mean, what was it like hiking back then I hiked it in 2011. So it was still before social media and this current more popularity of the Florida trail in the last five years. So it was still pretty quiet when I hiked it. But I can imagine in 2006, it was even more quiet. Were you really excited about that quietness? Was it still a little like? Yes. Curious.

Johnny Molloy 

To contrast, the hiking, the Appalachian Trail has become a complete social experience. People who are don't know each other beforehand, but by the whims of who knows what, they all end up on the same spot of the same trail at the same time, and they begin to know, meet one another. And then they begin to walk together. And then it becomes a rolling social experience. Unlike a lot of people are aware that now but you used to be people that used to think they're going to be in nature all the time. And, and but it's not that way. However, the Florida trail 78 days, I camped with people I did not know, twice. And that was just a fluke that I was leaving camp with them. So if you're a person who's truly looking for solitude, and truly looking to reconnect with nature, on nature's terms, and the Florida Trail is a superior experience to the Appalachian Trail, even though there's more road walking, and there's probably there was probably more road walking in 2006. And before, but yet, if you really want to be out in nature on your own Florida trail delivers.

Misti Little 

Well, and even to the road walks, I wanted to ask about trail conditions at that time. Because yeah, some of the trail has been moved off of the road walks. But I imagine there was definitely more than and I mean was, was it maintained well back then. And you know, what was going through your mind as you're walking through through this trail up from Big Cypress to the Alabama border?

Johnny Molloy 

Well, really, it was just as wet. So really, it was in fine shape. And if I think I would even say that the not the kind of road walk type places weren't better Blaze than they are now because then there weren't as much instruction as to what to do if you were not in the back country. Right. Just follow the Blazers and hope for the best. Now everybody can whip out their phone and do this and that and don't even really need a place.

Misti Little 

Right. All right. Yeah. I mean, we didn't even use it. We use old school maps for our hike to there were plenty of times we got to dig our maps out and be like, Okay, I haven't seen a blaze and like halfway did we miss something?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, so you're almost familiar enough with the, the big what I call the Big Four Areas of Florida trail which I included in this backpack and Florida book or the Big Cypress National Preserve again, there's nowhere else like Okay, say if you're hiking in the Smoky Mountains National Park, it's more like Shenandoah National Park than it is unlike Shenandoah National Park. The Big Cypress National Preserve is unlike anywhere right. And the backpack in there I mean it's just so much fun and so beautiful and it's challenging. And you really got to have your your your stuff together and when you're hiking through the water for mile after mile after mile. It that here's the same as mountains are to the Appalachians. Water is to the Florida trail. As well as ours Appalachian Trail water is to the Florida trail. So you get it in spades in the Big Cypress and then the Ocala National Forest, another superlative superior, the world's largest sand pine scrub forest on the planet. And you can hike proceeds the seven miles on the Florida trail through that and I just love that place in the smell the sights, the feel everything about it. And then the third big one is hiking the Florida trail along the Swanee River, which the Swanee river is Florida's contribution to great rivers of the world. And you get to hike along and just the bow diversity. The sandbars the tan extremes, the towering trees. I just did that. I just did an 82 mile hike. January along that that was one of the final hikes for my backpack in Florida the book. And then the fourth of the Big Four is the Apalachicola National Forest and it's got about a 60 mile segment of the Florida trail. The Apalachicola National Forest is a very unforgiving place. It does not care it doesn't care if you're there. It doesn't care if you're not there. It gives no quarter. It is just a is it starkly beautiful, yet has its own challenges. And I think it's one of my one of my favorite places to go and I go there for a period of time, every winter.

Misti Little 

Yeah, people get out of Big Cypress and think okay, well, I'm mostly done with the water and then Apalachicola really throws it back at you.

Johnny Molloy 

Absolutely does the infamous Bradwell Bay. I took a buddy of mine from East Tennessee down there. And we went through the Bradwell Bay and it was really hot water. And it was he could not believe it. And I mean, he was just in shock even though I tried to tell him. It was hot water. And I mean it was just unbelievable. But you know what? He'll never forget it. If you do the same old thing over and over and you don't experience new places and new settings, then you won't make memories as good as you do when you go new places,

Misti Little 

right? Absolutely. Now, I think you hiked with some friends when you first started a little bit did they ever get to join and like I said, it's been a year since I read your book and I'm trying to refresh my memory on some of it but I didn't know if they came back out to hike with you other times on the Florida trail or if they've been back out since since your hike on the Florida trail.

Johnny Molloy 

One guy one guy did join me a couple of times. But yeah, that yeah, two guys went with me right right off the bat and the Big Cypress. And they they lived in Miami and they were they'd heard of the legendary Big Cypress but it was funny because they were trying to the same time they were trying to Section hike the Appalachian Trail and they always they talk about these big long stories about challenging cracked up in this neck of the woods. But this one guy, I mean it just flat out kicked in Big Cypress. But that's that's part of it. You know if we're not part of what I love about my job is the physical challenge. If there's not a whole lot of job for you got a lot of physical challenge, and a lot of mental challenge, a physical challenge being the actual hike and the mental challenge being the right in part, because just in the past couple of years I did also backpack in Tennessee, which has almost 700 miles of backpack internet. The Florida backpack and book has over 600 As does book out road came out a few years ago called backpack in Virginia. And the fact is, backpacking is a very challenging thing. And if you're paying averse, you're not gonna like it.

Misti Little 

That's true. Yep, I was actually out on the trail. And the lone star trail this weekend didn't overnight with my niece and her scout troop and my feet are feeling it because it's been a few months since I've been on the trail again. And so I'm definitely feeling the pain. But I'm also feeling like I could have gone for several more days out there. And done it.

Johnny Molloy 

I've always wanted to get on that trail. But you know, the the only thing worse than being sore from doing it is not having done it at all.

Misti Little 

Absolutely, I agree.

Johnny Molloy 

That's just one encouraging my as listening here. There's there, there isn't always tomorrow, you know that you we put off things and we put off things we put on things. I have been an outdoor enthusiast for nearly 40 years, and I've been self employed, I've been able to do what I want, when I want how or even I cannot do it all. So I encourage you to follow whatever dreams you may have in the outdoor just, you gotta make it happen.

Misti Little 

Absolutely. I mean, I have been coming up with a list of things I want to get done this spring. And I know I don't know if I'm going to be able to get all all the cool places I want to see in East Texas, but I'm going to try.

Johnny Molloy 

Absolutely. So how long is that, that in that lone lone star trails at 128 miles or something like that?

Misti Little 

I think it's like, somewhere between 90 and 100. And there's some like side trails involved in it. And it's I've done many sections, but we've never pieced the whole thing together. And that's something I want to do is piece the whole thing together. There's a few roadblocks, but it's not terrible. It's mostly rural, rural areas. But it's nice though the west side of the trail is very different from the east side. forest habitats change. It's cool. It's easy access from Houston and and this area, so it's a good place for people to escape to.

Johnny Molloy 

Well, that sounds good.

Misti Little 

Yeah, I wish I wish Texas had more trails like that. But we're lacking in a lot of public land space.

Johnny Molloy 

Yep. Yep. So that's why I was saying how blessed I am to have, you know, I can go the Appalachian Trail is I can get to multiple trailheads within 20 miles of my house. And like I said that millions of acres of national forest land just within quick shooting distance, myself. And that's why you know, most of the books, I've written books covering all our parts of 26 states. But if you imagine the 11 former Confederate states in the southeast, that's where most of my books have been. And what it amounts to, is I'm also not only just writing it once, but I'm updating like I've got a book 50 hikes in the north Georgia mountains. I'm working on the fourth update to that right now the fourth edition, and I get to revisit places and that's a lot of fun. Fixing to do a book a redo a book at New River Gorge National Park. It's a national park now so that's gonna be a lot of fun some

Misti Little 

I'm not on your Florida trail hike or any of your other trail experience. Honestly, anywhere anywhere you've been if you had any cool like wildlife sightings, I'm sure you've seen tons of bears and Smokies but Panthers on the Florida trail

Johnny Molloy 

or Yes, I have seen. I've seen Panthers twice in my life. And one of them was talking to Florida trail around Lake Okeechobee with a guy and we just turned the corner and there he was, and I mean I could not I believe they're way bigger or It's way bigger than what I thought it would be like. And that was a thrill. And I was glad to see one after seeing all those Panther warning signs. Yeah. And also saw one in the Big Cypress, another time. So, but I was in a car. That was a lot. That was a thrill. But wildlife is a part of an experience. People always want to know those kinds of stories. And I've had a bear step on me twice in my life. Encounters. And they were both backpacking. I was in the Smoky Mountains National Park. And this was a long time ago, and they didn't have the bear the they had these food storage cables nowadays, but they didn't then. And this buddy man had these tomatoes that he brought were bag that I can. And I came up looked over and that bear had grabbed the bag. It's made us and was backing out of the campsite. We ran him off, but he came back later on. And so I've kind of slept near my backpack to alert myself as to the bear arriving. And he stepped on me before he stepped on the backpack. That was crazy. It was right about dying. So I didn't know what was going on. And I was asleep. But he ran off. So another time I was in Virginia, and it was the same thing as food habituated bear had come to this campsite. It was in the back country. But there happened to be like two or three parties. There was a weekend. And he literally just rained on these people. It was a college group that was out and just tore through their tents and everything. They'd left food everywhere. Yeah, man made his way over to me. And I didn't I hung my pack up by that point. But I was laying there in a sleeping bag, just sleeping out on the ground. He was out he just stepped right on me. I don't know if he thought I was a pack or what? I zipped up in my sleeping bag, and I couldn't get my arms out. And I'm trying to unzip it real quick. It's been myself. I don't know what I could do.

Misti Little 

Yeah, I mean, that's a way to wake up, man. You're not sure if you're gonna be alive very long.

Johnny Molloy 

I hear Yeah. And but that's part of the outdoor experience is seeing the foreigner of all sorts. I mean, you spend enough time out there, you'll see everything. But also, the flora is good too. And that's another thing about the timing. You know, we all want to be where, you know, we're going on spring wildflower season, take some time to get out there and do it and see some beautiful wildflowers and to see spring blooms of trees. I mean, the world is a beautiful place.

Misti Little 

Yeah, that's that's that's that's my list for the spring is some spring wildflowers and rare plants in East Texas that I'm trying to research and figure out exactly where they may or may not be and get out and see some of that stuff. Because, you know, you can read all about them and know that they're there. But unless you go and track them down, you're never gonna actually you're never gonna see them there. And, and I think that's one of the cool things about hiking too is sometimes you stumble across the things that you didn't know, he things you didn't know, you didn't know that, you know, you come across the rare plants, the interesting tidbits of of wildlife that are living out there unless you're out there hiking, you don't you don't see it.

Johnny Molloy 

That's why you know, this virtual world is a joke in a lot of ways because you can't you cannot experience cold, heat, smell sound do we were just backpacking this other day or just right near my house and we're at this we're standing on outcrop on top of a mountain that it rained a bunch and while we're standing there, we can hear this waterfall fallen from the top of the mountain mark and its way down and it was just really loud because it rained a lot and just you gotta get out there to feel it. And then that evening, an incredible wind came up and I didn't have 10 or anything I've just sleeping out on the ground. And I felt like I was sleeping in front of a gigantic fan. So so but you know and it's not always pleasant, but guess what? I remember it

Misti Little 

well and you appreciate ain't coming home to a warm shower and a little bit of creature comforts more than you did if you are sensitized to it all the time.

Johnny Molloy 

Here. Yeah, you know, just when I was down in Florida, finish that book up and I was down there for five straight weeks, I was down there for 35 days hike 280 miles into rush hour as well as down there.

Misti Little 

It's easy to get smelly, that's for sure.

Johnny Molloy 

And you know what? Nothing like, I always like to jump in the creek and I'll do that. I have some odd practices or some not normal. I don't treat my water. I just drink it everywhere. So considered do as I say, and that is that do advice. But I just drink the water. Mainly sleep out unless I absolutely have to have some kind of covering. Now in Florida A lot of times when it's warm, you got to battle the mosquito. So you got to have at least a screenshot. One thing about my my thru hike of the Florida trail was I took a chance I just used a little netting screen netting with no hiking poles. No. Just the netting that went into a ball about the size of a water bottle. And then from a shelter. I use nothing but a poncho. And I made it the whole way. Wow. Yeah. Well, I

Misti Little 

thought you didn't filter your water. And I was like, Maybe I'm remembering this wrong. And because you know people get on the Florida trail and especially around the agricultural areas, they get very squeamish about it. And, you know, when we hiked where there was not a lot of Tralee indoors, there was nobody putting water out. And now everybody puts water out. And then here you are just like drinking it straight from the canal.

Johnny Molloy 

No, because you know what a filter ain't gonna get whatever somebody's scared of in a canal. I don't think a filter is gonna get rid of it. No, it's not gonna get rid of fertilizer or whatever people are scared of. Yeah, I'm just kind of, I've spent so much time in the outdoors. I just kind of think, you know, try to get me sick, try to get me hurt or whatever. And it's maybe a mountain little myth, but

Misti Little 

I'm sure you're choosy about it, you're not exactly going to filter water where cows have been waiting, you know, right, that sort of thing either. Um, you're not doing that sort of thing. But I mean, you hit so you have never had Giardia or anything else. I never have. Wow, that's impressive.

Johnny Molloy 

I've been with three different people who did. So I don't know. See, when I first started going to the Smokies. The guy that took me the first time he just drank water. So I just did what he did. And so I just kind of kept it up. Boy, it saved me a lot of trouble. Because I see people messing with water all the time.

Misti Little 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I mean, in all your trail miles and your time in Florida, did you have any interesting encounters with, you know, peep trail angels or volunteers or just you know, the random folks that crossed your path along your one year hikes? Anybody that's memorable and stands out?

Johnny Molloy 

Not really not like? Not like you think because my experience like I've gone back to that social thing. So I don't by the time I do like Florida trail, I'd already backpack you know, probably 1500 nights or something like that. So I knew what floats my boat. Most people that do these long trails, especially like Appalachian Trail. They mostly haven't camped at home. And so the notion of spending night after night by themself is not a pleasant one. They're not used to silence. They're not used to limited social interaction. So they seek it out. And they, you know, they, they, they, they band with other people, whereas me I was out there trying to experience Florida and not necessarily the people of Florida.

Misti Little 

Right, right. Now, to piggyback off of that a little bit is because the Florida trail is becoming a little more sociable. People do have tended to get into little groups of hikers and there is a much more detailed trail Angel grouping now and I'm sure social media helped with a lot of that. But I do know there's plenty of other hikers who are like you, I don't know if you're familiar with grits, if you've ever met him I can't think of his his his in real life name, but he's one of those hikers that you know has just a regular old cell phone tends to steer clear from people and if you know him, you know him, but if you don't, he's gonna be that that ghost on the trail that's out there hiking, and there's still there's people that are still like you out there. And you know, I appreciate all that.

Johnny Molloy 

I hear you know, the thing is, if you do it, I don't feel a need to to scream and shout what I've done, you know that a posting something I've done? It's not the thrill i don't think a lot of people do it for because we all want to be loved. It's a fact. And I'm just not one of those people who don't Yeah, you don't need to tell you shouldn't just just for hiking a trail, or, and you know, what's really funny is, you know, the whole trail Angel thing is funny because most of the people who are thru hikers, are people who have the means to do it. They don't need a trail Angel. You know what I mean? It's like, why should I go cook some hamburgers for some people who already figured out how to take six months off of work and go enjoy themselves? If you want a camaraderie with them? That's fine. But from my own self, I've never understood that concept. Okay. All right.

Misti Little 

Now, is there a reason why you chose to finish the Florida trail at the Alabama border instead of that fort Pickens?

Johnny Molloy 

Yes. Two reasons. Number one is the Blackwater River State Forest is such a beautiful place. And I think it's, you have less road walk. When you finish, you know, and now by the way, the Florida trail does not exist in the Blackwater River State Forest. They have now just made one way and you just end at the golf now, because they've renamed the trail because I just hiked the Blackwater River State Forest last month. So but I chose it because I wanted to do the maximum backwoods hiking rather than road walk and in trying to figure out where to spend the night there the end.

Misti Little 

Yeah, yeah. That end is tricky. I think there is a campsite now on the backside of Santa Rosa Island, but and we chose not to stay there. We, my father in law had come down to pick us up at the end of the trail. And so we had a nice hotel room that night. But for I know a lot of people who get stuck in that area of choice. Yeah. It's a tricky area for sure. I mean, I honestly that's my complaint on some various areas of the road walks as well. There is just no safe camping, you have to do a lot of stealth camping and hope nobody wants you off their private property.

Johnny Molloy 

I hear you because that was another funny thing about my thru hike in the Florida trail. I didn't have a stove or anything. So I wanted to cook or have coffee. In the morning, I had to make a fire. And so that was very challenging in times and places of making a fire. And kind of an odd situation like that.

Misti Little 

Yeah. So So you made a fire Most times when you camped or not.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, yeah. Okay, I did it. Because I love to drink coffee. Got a bowl of water in the morning to have coffee.

Misti Little 

Do you still do that now? Do you still can't make fires? Or do you have a stove?

Johnny Molloy 

No, I'm a fire. I'm a throwback guy.

Misti Little 

Okay.

Johnny Molloy 

The way I figured is this. You know, if I have to carry that stove, I've got to expend a certain amount of energy carrying the stove and the fuel. So instead, I don't have to carry the stove and fuel and then expend twice as much energy hunting down wood. Right now just really the atmosphere of a fire and all that kind of stuff. Right? Just a stove is something that can break.

Misti Little 

Yeah, well, no, some thru hikers who don't even enjoy a nice fire at that camp anymore. Some people are just like, they get into camp, they go to sleep, they get back up, they do the miles but I don't know that part of the fire. You know, maybe not every night but it's nice to have a little fire. There's something there's something about that and camping out and having a little fire.

Johnny Molloy 

It's part of it. You know, we've only been doing that as long as man has been in existence, right? So I'm not gonna So I'm certainly not going to feel guilty about making a fire.

Misti Little 

Now, I know you've mentioned you know, the big four areas that have the Florida trail, but is there any favorite sections of the trail that you go to time and time again?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, besides besides the Big Four and maybe I go to the the Osceola National Forests. I go there repeatedly. And there's also I'm trying to think of the only I was just oh, this called bull Creek Wildlife Management Area. Yeah. Yeah, like beautiful Scott good views. That's one thing that's funny about Florida and the Florida trail is they think he ought to be standing on top of a mountain African view, but actually, the prairies in Florida expansive views that mountainous areas cannot compete with because they're completely different. They're not the same. And bull creeks are one of those places, three lakes wildlife management areas, another place or they're almost touch one another, where they've got these prairies with this, these great views.

Misti Little 

Yeah, and a lot of people will say Florida is their best places that they've seen sunsets. And I have to agree. I think it's one of the better places for sunsets, even without that big mountain view that you would expect expect for a sunset. I don't know the colors of the sky in the wintertime and Florida are amazing.

Johnny Molloy 

Um, what have you you know, in fact, as I mentioned earlier, paddlers guide to Everglades National Park have battled in the back country. I've camped over 400 nights in the Everglades back country as well. And there's nothing like being camped on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. That's a national park, natural beach, unimproved works of God, and you're looking at the sunset of the Gulf of Mexico. In the next thing West would be where you're at?

Misti Little 

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's nobody around you for 30 miles or more.

Johnny Molloy 

It's really cool. And you can't get that everywhere. And superlative sunset.

Misti Little 

Yeah, that is one thing I missed about. I lived in Florida for about eight years. And one thing we never did was that paddling along the 10,000 Islands Delta out there, and I kicked myself for not doing it. And someday I'm going to make a trip out there just just to do it. Because I know how special this Yeah, I know. Right?

Johnny Molloy 

That is there's some great rivers and additionally, Florida has another great paddling overnight, canoe camp and or kayak camp and on the Swanee river, you can go for 200 miles, and they have public lands where you can freely camp and not have to worry about somebody you know, being trespassing, or yeah, there's some great paddling experiences in the Sunshine State.

Misti Little 

So I mean, since you've got to come back to Florida and go see it all the time and with your book writing. Have you noticed any significant changes to the Florida trail or any of the other parts of Florida since your thru hike?

Johnny Molloy 

That well I think it really in the Florida trail is holding its own without a doubt and I am put the outside of the natural areas. I mean, there's just people moving in and left and right. I mean, they're building something every everywhere, every road is clogged and all that kind of stuff. But there's a lot of people that spend the winter down in Florida. Yeah. Furthermore, the this pandemic has awakened some people to just chucking it all and trying to seek their dreams and have adventures. And so a lot of a lot of areas camp campgrounds and things are really full. And I can't blame them. And I'm down there camping out myself.

Misti Little 

That is definitely one of the things here in Texas we've had trouble getting reservations for there for a while they were blocking it, everything you reserve up to three months in advance. I think it's back to six months now. And the people in Florida were also telling me just how busy you know, they can't find campsites and places that used to be very deserted like Kissimmee prairie is always full like 15 years ago I could go there and there'd be hardly anybody there and now it's packed.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, I was just there a month ago did their they got a backpack and trail mix. That's one thing I want to add here is that Florida State Parks. They've really opened their eyes to have an backpacking options that allow Out of state parks, they got mostly good campgrounds, but they're also have backpacking options. You know a lot of Florida State Parks they're not going to do but a one or two nine or on most of them. But to have that at all is a very smart thing and it gives people just a chance to go on a quick one night trip. There's a park near them almost anywhere in the state where they can do an overnight experience.

Misti Little 

That was an ask have you ever done the ocean to Lake segment of the Florida trail?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, twice. And that was a that's a lot of fun. Just yet one more. Yet one more experience where you can do a long trail in Florida and I've also done that you can walk all the way around Lake Okeechobee, I think it's 100 miles. So I've done that. And yeah, I've done about every kind of long venture you can do in Florida on these in these winters.

Misti Little 

Yeah, yeah, the Oceana Lake has almost like a cult like following the people who live in that area of the state. Just they they use that trail. And I'm glad I'm glad it's there, but and that it gets so much use. It's It's good to see. Yep. Now, you mentioned your book that you just finished. Are you working on anything else coming up in the next year do you

Johnny Molloy 

have contracted to do this finishes hike in New Jersey book. I'm also finishing this or Falcon, finishing this hike in Kentucky book and contracted to update the hiking guide for New River Gorge National Park. So that's what and I'm updating among redo the whole book update mountain book 50 hikes in the north Georgia mountains. So those four will keep me plenty busy in the coming coming day coming months, and I shouldn't be busy enough until it's time to go back to Florida again. Yeah.

Misti Little 

So do you plan your hikes out in advance? Do you know what what you're gonna be doing in three months? Or? Yeah, yeah.

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, I do. I mean, I know generally when I'm going to be going there, like I'm going to New Jersey at the beginning. Because these books you for photographs, you want to have some leaf out. Versus Baron Brown. When there may working on the Georgia book in June going to the River Gorge in July, in doing the Kentucky kind of interspersed I'm almost done with that book. All you got to do 12 More hikes for that? Yes, I do know, roughly. But everything is dependent on the weather. You know, it's gonna be raining for a week I just shift and adjust.

Misti Little 

Yeah. Now, do you? I do try to camp and do this stuff in fair weather or do you if it's gonna be raining for a couple days you go out anyway?

Johnny Molloy 

Well put it this way. I'm not going back to New Jersey to I mean, I'm not coming back from New Jersey until I'm done.

Misti Little 

Okay, getting it done.

Johnny Molloy 

So, you know, the farther it is, the less I'm going back and forth not somewhere like this Kentucky books is I live in Tennessee. Yeah, not far. So I just kind of bounce around back and forth. In when I go to West Virginia, even though it's not that far from us. We're gonna stay there the whole time until I'm done.

Misti Little 

Right. Have you done anything on the mountains to see trail?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, you know, I got a book coming out or it's coming out just any day now. It's called a can't miss hikes in North Carolina State Parks, that a lot of segments of the mountains to see trail. And also I got a hiking guide for North Carolina's National Forest, which also has a lot of segments of the mountains to sea trail. And it's funny you mentioned that because that is one that I would like to through hike and perhaps right another memoir book.

Misti Little 

Yeah, that one always that one intrigues me a lot. I've seen. I've had I've interviewed a couple of people who have hiked it and I don't know it just seems seems like a really cool trail. It's a little bit a little bit Appalachians a little bit low country and you get to see a lot of interesting things, I think.

Johnny Molloy 

Yep. I think it would be a good adventure. Maybe I should do it.

Misti Little 

Yeah, you should. I mean, it's there, get it? Well, I want to to close out. Where can people find you online, your website, where can they buy your books? I am sure they can buy them, you know, Amazon and all of that. But I don't know if you sell them on your website or not?

Johnny Molloy 

Well, the best place like it says I got over 80 books covering all parts of 27 states. They're mostly regional. So the regional books you're gonna find them wherever you're at, whether it's Pennsylvania or floor or wherever. So the best source it really is Amazon. You just type in Johnny Malloy books, and you'll have more choices. You got?

Misti Little 

You have plenty of hiking to do if once you get that.

Johnny Molloy 

That's right.

Misti Little 

What do you have any final thoughts for hikers if you're heading out on the FT, I mean, you gave a lot of, I think good advice and tidbits throughout this already. But just any advice for hikers for the Florida trail or just getting out on any trails in the southeast,

Johnny Molloy 

just just go out there and do it and focus on the experience and not the gear. Don't worry about if you don't have the right this or the right that are the best shoes. And the best says this guy, there was a friend of mine, he's friends with me now the very first backpacking trip, he wanted to go so bad with us that he literally used a garbage bag, a plastic garbage bag and slung in our shoulder and with the Smokies with us. So the point is to do it, don't worry about the stuff. And don't watch a video of everywhere you think you might go. Because it ruins experience. Leave something for a surprise because there's nothing like when you turn that corner on a river, or you climb to the top of a mountain, you see that view and you've never seen it before. But if you looked at 27 videos of it, what's the point? Right leave some adventure.

Misti Little 

Amen, I hear you. It's it's easy for so many people who are researching backpacking trips, and they get hung up on the gear they get hung up on. You know, watching all these through hiker videos. I don't know how people have time to hike and edit videos. I have not figured that out. And I can't even keep up with watching them. I watch a few here and there. And I'm just like, how do you have time?

Johnny Molloy 

Yeah, and you know, it just, you know, this is funny man here in town. We'll plan a trip. But I can't tell him where I'm going or tell them where we're going. Because you'll look it up. Yeah. So just leave a little bit of something to chance. And leave. Let the adventure unroll before you.

Misti Little 

Well, Johnny, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk about I don't know this 40 years of amazing hiking and outdoor life that you've got and hopefully you've got, I don't know, maybe 40 more years 20 more years 30 more years out ahead of you

Johnny Molloy 

here as long as the good Lord let me walk I'm gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Misti Little 

That's it for my conversation with Johnny Malloy. You can find the show notes for the episode at Orange Blaze dot the garden path podcast.com And you can find me on Instagram as orange Blaze podcast. If you haven't had a chance to leave a rating or review on iTunes, maybe drop a five star rating and review for the podcast when you get a chance. I would certainly appreciate it. And be sure to tell your hiking friends on the trail this season about the podcast and the Florida trail. Until next time happy hiking

Mills Kelly

The Green Tunnel is a production of R2 Studios at the Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media at George Mason University. Jeanette Patrick and Jim Ambuske are the executive producers. Thank you to Misti ‘Ridley’ Little for sharing today’s episode of Orange Blaze: A Florida Trail Podcast. At R2 Studios we’re on a mission to democratize history through podcasting, and we invite you to join us. So, head to R2Studios.org and click on “Support Us” to help us make the best history podcasts out there. That’s it for today. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you again soon!