Episode 41: Very Eccentric & I Think a Little Crazy

Your Most Obedient & Humble Servant
Episode 41: "Very Eccentric & I Think a Little Crazy"
Published on July 25, 2023

Note: This transcript was generated by Otter.ai with light human correction

Kathryn Gehred  
Hello, and welcome to Your Most Obedient & Humble Servant. This is a women's history podcast where we feature 18th and early 19th century women's letters that don't get as much attention as we think they should. I'm your host, Katherine Garrett. This week I am delighted to introduce to you once again my wonderful colleague, Katie Blizzard. Katie works at the Center for Digital Editing at the University of Virginia and is an editor with the papers of Martin Van Buren. Hi, Katie.

Katie Blizzard  
Hi, thanks for having me back.

Kathryn Gehred  
We are veering away from bed beard, sadly. But I found this letter in the Dolly Madison papers. And it struck me as very funny and I wanted to share it with someone and I thought that Katie, as somebody who's also worked with me on the Washington papers for quite a while that she might be somebody who would appreciate this letter. Yeah, on

Katie Blizzard  
first read, I loved this letter. It was just a delight to imagine the scene that is described in this letter. So I'm excited for you to read it.

Kathryn Gehred  
Fantastic. Now, we're introducing some new characters from people that I usually talk about. And I had to do some research on these people. So if these aren't Martha Washington's grandkids who I know quite a bit about, these are some slightly more outside characters, but I've had people recommend that we do more lesser known figures on the podcast, so this will meet that need. Today's letter is from Phoebe Pemberton, Morris, to her sister, Rebecca Wister, Morris. I don't know how to say that middle name, whether it's Rebecca Wister, or Rebecca Wistar. But Rebecca Western Morris, who later married and her last name is Norse. They were the daughters of Anthony Morris, who was a Quaker merchant from Philadelphia. And he was a friend of Dolly Madison back when she lived in Philadelphia, and was a Quaker and was married to her first husband, before she married James Madison. At the time of writing this letter, Phoebe is 21 years old, and she's writing to her younger sister who's 19 years old. She was also good friends with Dolly Madison. Phoebe's mother passed away in 1808. And at that point, Dolly Madison took on kind of a mothering role to her friend's children. So they have a lot of correspondence. They were really good friends. And they sort of use their connection to the Madison's to advance their careers. Anthony Morris had been the director of the Bank of North America from 1800 1806. And then there's a bit of a gap in his resume. And at the time of this letter in 1812, he is looking for an office as a commercial agent somewhere outside of the United States. So he's sort of sending letters to James Madison, suggesting maybe he would be good for a post. So from Phoebe's perspective, she was born and raised in Philadelphia to a very wealthy family. She's 21. She's young, and she is at the time of this letter visiting the federal city. So that's Washington, DC. I'm not sure where she's staying exactly. But she's definitely socializing with Dolly Madison, who is the First Lady of the United States at this point. So being young on the town being sort of introduced into a new city and new society with Dolly Madison as your, I guess, mother figure, introducing her into society. It's a pretty exciting time, I think for Phoebe. Agreed. So that's a little bit of background. Hopefully that will set things up for the letter. Now I'm going to go ahead and read it. 

Phoebe Pemberton Morris to Rebecca Wistar Morris (Nourse), 28 Feb. 1812

Washington, Feby 28th 1812

My dear Sister
I hope our papa has long before this returned from Bolton; tell me who has stayed with you during his absence— I am sure you must have felt so lonely— tell me also what Brother is about, what school he attends now beside M. Voleran’s & what Head he is drawing, I feel very much interested in his progress in that Art as he promises so fairly to excel both his sisters. We have now had two days of rest; that is we have been during that time no dinners, dances, or parties of any kind—but the House has been constantly crowded with visitors to whom we are very seldom denied, & next week we are promised a new species of entertainment: a public concert which Mrs. Madison will herself attend. I believe the principle performer, Mr. Duffy has been for some time past in Phila, but I rather imagine his fame not to be very extensive; yet as Mrs. M. has patronized his Concert he will at least be the Tonl.

Then she writes the word t o n l must be a contraction for something but I don't know what that is. Do you know Katie? 

Katie Blizzard  
 I didn't either. 

Kathryn Gehred  
Tomorrow we sup at the French Ministers, on Monday the Concert, on Tuesday we have a large dinner here & in the evening there will be a Ball at Georgetown, & on Wednesday the Drawing Room— Our engagements extend no farther at present— I always like to give the routine of them, that you may know when you are sitting together of an evening where Phebe is. 

I must not forget to tell you of the decorations of the ballroom on the birthnight— It was arranged by Mrs Custis, one of the nearest relations of Genl Washington— She is certainly very eccentric & I think a little crazy. The walls were covered with musquets, pistols—colors, etc. & had more the appearance of a Tent than a Ballroom & at the feet of the Musicians was placed a Portrait though not a likeness of the poor General, which looked as if it were painted with chalk & charcoal— Mrs. Custis was decorated with miniature pictures of her illustrious relative, some round her neck, & others round her arms— while her sister, Mrs Peter, wore two as large as warming pans, one representing the General, which rested upon her bosom, & the other his Lady, which dangled below her waist.

I wish in your next letter you would tell me whether I had better write Fanny Durdin as you have mentioned their late disappointment, I suppose she must be in distress & was fearful of addressing her on ordinary topicks, & yet wishing to write— tell Papa that Mrs M. will soon send him some delicious Eau de Cologne, which has arrived in the Constitution, but which she has not yet arrived.

Mary Norris has not answered my letter which I wrote her soon after my arrival here, tell her I am quite offended, but I send her a great deal of love & also to my dear M. Kingston & M. & E. Fox— & why has not Charlotte written me one single line—She who promised never to forget her dearest Friend in this country as she always styled me—

Adieu my sweet sister, I know at least that you keep ever in remembrance your affectionate

P.P. Morris

I am sorry to have troubled you so often for lace, trimmings, etc. but those articles are not so easily procured here as in Philadelphia, yet as we go out so much I have been obliged to buy shoes, ribbons, which are more expensive & not half so handsome as they are there. 

So that is the letter. Any luck on that contraction? Katie?

Katie Blizzard  
No, unfortunately not. But I'm very curious to find out what that is. If I do figure it out. I'll send it to you later.

Kathryn Gehred  
Okay, maybe this will be a mystery for humble servant listeners. What is capital T l n l a contraction for? I've got no idea. Isn't this a cute letter? What do you think, Katie? Oh,

Katie Blizzard  
it was so fun to read. I was a little speechless when you were first introducing the letter, because you were describing this really exciting time in her life when she's going out into federal city society. And then imagine, like, the bizarre contrast of going to the ball, and just wanting to see federal city society. And then you have this eccentric scene play out in front of you, of two women wearing these large portraits of George Washington, all over their costume. It's quite the scene, but I love it. I'm here for it.

Kathryn Gehred  
Like, it's like Philadelphia societies like cool and fashionable, and everybody has beautiful dresses, and Washington society. It's just giant pictures of George Washington.

Katie Blizzard  
It's a different fashion for sure. From this one letter.

Kathryn Gehred  
So to go through sort of chronologically, things that struck me in the letter I was able to identify she writes about her family home in Bolton, which is near Philadelphia. She asks about her brother and what school he attends Now besides M volere. And so I was able to actually find who that was. She either misspelled his name or it didn't come across, but that was Dennis a Volos ZAN. He was a miniature painter. That's how he's listed in the Philadelphia directory as a miniature painter. And he opens a school in Philadelphia is an Academy for Young Scholars. And if you look at newspapers from the time they would have museum shows and present their art, so that's why she says what head He is drawing. He probably has been assigned to do a miniature of someone which is cool,

Katie Blizzard  
I think. I thought it was really connection. reading notes about in Villa Zan are Dennison villas, and the brother is drawing portraits and then later she goes to this party where portraits are just displayed. On costume, I thought it was a really interesting connection. And if I could put a tinfoil hat on, I would want to create some outrageous conspiracy that he was the one who designed the portraits. But I guess she does critique the the one portrait of the poor general, being that it was done in shock, so it wouldn't be her brother.

Kathryn Gehred  
Well, that's tricky. So she's talking about how he's going to become better than both his sisters at art, but so that says that she knows a little something about arts. So she does. She is judging that portrait pretty harshly. If she talks about how busy she is, she's going to so many of these dances and parties, and then she's excited about the public concert that Mrs. Madison is going to attend herself, which would of course be a big deal of Mr. Duffy. And now I found the advertisement for this concert was in the National Intelligencer of February 25. It said

Mr. Duffy at the desire of his friends begs leave to acquaint the ladies and gentlemen of Washington and vicinity that he will give a concert at Tomlinson's assembly room near the Capitol on Saturday. Next weather permitting, Mr. Duffy will sing some of the most approved airs and on his part assures his friends and the public that he shall be extremely happy and convincing them on that evening. How very solicitous he is for their future favorable opinion. In addition to the entertainments Mr. Duffy will introduce the favorite heir of the exile of Aaron and a song in praise of the ladies of Columbia.

I thought this was really cute ad particularly because he's being a little bit desperate.

Katie Blizzard  
It's a classic barred move.

Kathryn Gehred  
I just island the most approved airs. Everyone approves if these airs, these are not edgy airs, like dislike. These are the most approved airs that he could say. But he says he will be extremely happy and convincing him. He's like, please love me, please love me. And then at the end, he's gonna sing a song in praise of the ladies of Columbia. So he knows where his bread is buttered. It's like, ladies. You're so wonderful. You Colombian ladies. Yeah, again, classic Birdman.

Katie Blizzard  
He knows his audience. It reminds me a lot of yes Kia from The Witcher series, and that he just needs that one song. And then he's locked in his audience.

Kathryn Gehred  
And apparently they did have the concert at the assembly room. And Dolly Madison did attend it, which was noteworthy. So he concluded the concert with Madison's favorite March, which I don't know what that is, but that's what he said. I should have followed up maybe he became a big pop sensation after

Katie Blizzard  
add a little choreography in there.

Kathryn Gehred  
Then tomorrow, she says today they're going to have dinner at the French ministers. This was Louie by BAE Charles SARAH Yeah, which I'm surely pronouncing wrong, but I tried. And that was who the French minister was at this time. Then they're going to have a large dinner. And then she says, I always like to give you the routine of them that you may know when you're sitting together have an evening where Phoebe is. So they're just sitting at home huddled around the fire thinking what fun is Phoebe having?

Katie Blizzard  
Oh, I love that description. It's sweet, though. I mean, it is what family does. My grandfather still has my first semester college schedule in his files.

Kathryn Gehred  
Let's Katie up to so now we get to the birth night. I love her. She doesn't even have to say whose birth night everybody knows it's George Washington's Birthday night. They're having a ball. They're having a party in celebration of George Washington's birthday. And the party was arranged by Mrs. Costas, who this is Elizabeth Parke Custis law who we've spoken about in previous episodes. At length, she spoke about herself at length in the letters. But at this point in her life, it's 1812. Her divorce, as actually it went through the previous year. So she is single, she's divorced, which is pretty scandalous at this time. She's living in Washington. She had lost custody of her daughter, which is very sad for her. And so I imagine she's not in a particularly great place at this point, which might be why she's described as actually crazy by Phoebe in this letter, but she just was always a big character. Elizabeth parkas does lot. She made a splash. So she had gone back to her maiden name, but also say Mrs. So she's Mrs. Costas at this point.

Katie Blizzard  
It's a bold claim on Phoebe's part, to just walk right out there with she's certainly very eccentric, and I think a little crazy. I mean, she leaves no room for error for the family at home, sitting around the fire wondering graffiti is because this evening she's with a crazy lady. Yes, I

Kathryn Gehred  
I wish she said a little bit more about why she was crazy. Although I guess she served that's what she talks about the walls covered with muskets and pistols. This is another great image I just just weapons everywhere.

Katie Blizzard  
It's like walking into a hunting cabin or like a safari cabin have just taxidermied heads everywhere. That's what I imagined of the sheer overwhelming sense that you feel would walking in there of it being a completely different environment than you're used to at home.

Kathryn Gehred  
And I mean, honestly, for Washington's birth night, it's not too crazy with beam debit look like a military tend to like you can see Washington's military 10 If you go to the Museum of the American Revolution in Philadelphia. And also, this just occurred to me earlier, this is a letter written in February of 1812. This is post battle of typica. New, but this is very much everybody's getting hyped up for a war with England at this point, things are pretty military minded in Washington. That might be part of the reason why she has such a sort of aggressively war like environment for her party.

Katie Blizzard  
Yeah, that's a much more plausible assertion I was going to make I did the math in Washington would have been at in 1812. And you know, the big eight oh is celebrated, as always with muskets and pistols on the wall.

Kathryn Gehred  
That's true. That's true. It's like the anniversary year 80 years is muskets. The traditional gift is the musket on your birthday. Immediately off the bat, great description. Then she talks about the bad portrait of George Washington, the poor General, who is sitting there at the feet of him with his bad likeness. And then Mrs. Custis, decorated with miniature pictures around her neck and around her arms. Oh, that's the other thing I wanted to say. She says that this is one of the nearest relations of General Washington. But she wasn't actually a blood relation of General Washington. They were a granddaughter of Martha Washington. But it's interesting how they are claiming this is like this is my grandfather is fair for them to do. But they're really claiming it here. They've got all of these pictures of Washington, they're throwing the birth night ball for him. So people have the impression that they're his closest relations, when in fact, they're not actually blood related. And also they're the two Elizabeth and Mrs. Peter is their sister, Martha. They're the two that weren't actually in Philadelphia with George and Martha. They're the two that were left behind. This might be them sort of laying some claim. I think stifled resentment over the years might be coming out a little bit with this very strong claim of the Washington's

Katie Blizzard  
Yeah, it's a great point to make that they were not the two children that lived with Martha and George, during the presidential years. Something I also wanted to point out, I know it's not Daniel part Costas is birth night and nor would that be the birth night that the nation remembers, but her illustrious relative Are we just gonna like put Daniel Park Costas underneath the rug or something in this family? Is he just completely forgotten? He doesn't even get like a teeny tiny portrait somewhere on the on the dress.

Kathryn Gehred  
You're so right. You're so right. Yeah. Daniel Parkwest is completely forgotten about, except for George Washington. Parke Custis. So that's their brother, naming his house Arlington. That was actually a call back to their Costas family. But other than that, they just completely don't care about the customers. It's all Washington all the time for them. This is Peter war two portraits as large as warming pans. I looked up how big a warming. Oh, good, thank you. It's like bigger than your head.

Katie Blizzard  
So I was talking about this earlier with my husband, and he was also asking after the size of warping pans, and after we discussed it a little bit. He was like, these are basically life size images of a person's head. Like, can you imagine seeing that on someone's person?

Kathryn Gehred  
It's like, it's like a three headed monster like she's got George 100 chest and Martha dangling below her waist. Spooky.

Katie Blizzard  
I don't know which eyes to look at when I'm talking to her. Oh, this makes me want to throw a George Washington's Birthday night party. So bad. I want to recreate this party.

Kathryn Gehred  
All right. The only other thing I have to say about this paragraph is that Mrs. Costas Elizabeth parkas this law was a Democratic Republican. She was not a Federalist. She actually had a political split with her family. So she took a different side in The War of 1812. Then Martha Park pestis Peter, who was very pro British, so when the British came during the War of 1812 and burned down the Capitol, she didn't even leave. I don't think like she knew she was good. Whereas Elizabeth Park Festus LA was not. So I think that's also interesting that these sisters are having a party. I don't know if this is tensions that have been coming up between them at this time. But this would be like a pretty interesting time for them to be having these political disagreements and also throwing this party.

Katie Blizzard  
Yeah, definitely adds a little color to the planning of this party, as you noted,

Kathryn Gehred  
yeah, I'm sure Phoebe is not aware of all of the interpersonal things going on in this family at this time. But I just love this outsider description of this event.

Katie Blizzard  
I do want to add one more thing. This is just purely for comedic effect. But my first reaction when I read this paragraph was thinking of a military general like developmentof, as portrayed in the great of just like the war general wearing all of his medals, and proudly displaying his military career or in this case, personal heritage is just strange. I really liked how Mrs. M was going to send some delicious odor clone to Papa. As you mentioned earlier, Mrs. Madison and Mr. Morris have a good friendship. It's just more a good friendship that you would send a good president like that.

Kathryn Gehred  
It's interesting, too, that he was trying to get political post at this time. And she's sending us gifts, and sort of vying for a job. And I think George Washington, he was so under scrutiny at his point in the presidency that he like, would not give a political job to somebody that he knew at all, because he was trying to be like, I'm not doing any nepotism, even though he did things like hire Martha's nephew to be his secretary and stuff. He would hire people for that, but not like political positions, he wouldn't put people that were asking him for a favor and political positions. It seems like Madison is like, Oh, my wife's friend. Sure. Because he does end up getting an agent job, I think in South America.

Katie Blizzard  
That's a great point. And I'm sure to add to his resume now is that he smells really nice.

Kathryn Gehred  
That's what got him, he would infer his meeting.

Katie Blizzard  
I can recommend you this gentleman. Not only is he a good character, but have sent

Kathryn Gehred  
her a little bit where she's talking about people not answering letters. I always love this little bit in people's correspondence where she's like, Mary Norris has not answered my letter, which I wrote her soon after arrival here. She says I'm quite offended, but I sent her a great deal of love. So that's cute. You can tell they're good friends. And then Why has not Charlotte written me one single line that was very relatable to me of oh, she says she'll never forget about me. And yet, I go to Washington, and she doesn't write me a single line. I can also imagine that she's just like, I mean, she's going to all these dances. She says, we go out so much that she's had to buy new shoes. I'm sure she's got all this news. She wants to share with all of her friends. And she's just waiting for them to write her. So she can. Yeah, if you

Katie Blizzard  
want to share the fun. You want to talk with your friends about it? Yeah, that's a good point. I agree with you. I always love the passive aggression. Actually, it's not really passive. It's pretty overt, just aggression. But it's always, it's always friendly. I mean, it's always in jest. But I like the line. She who promised never to forget her dearest friend in this country, as she always doubted me. It's like, if you're gonna give me this nickname, you better live up to it.

Kathryn Gehred  
Exactly. And then that little last bit at the end first talks about how she needs lace trimmings, and all of that. I think it's still interesting that it's 1812. Washington has been around for a while now. And it still doesn't have the same like quality of imports as a city like Philadelphia, Philadelphia is still very much the place to be for your fashionable shoes, ribbons, all of that. And so it's more expensive, and they're not as high quality to get them in Washington, rather than Philadelphia.

Katie Blizzard  
I wonder how often she was asking about this. If you went back to the Dolly Madison papers, and you read through the letters between Phoebe and Rebecca, how often it was mentioned. I just think it would be fun. Because at what point did she feel like she was being an annoyance, asking her sister for all of these laces and trimmings.

Kathryn Gehred  
If she's not like writing a full letter of like, Hey, how are you? She's just asking her over and over again for things. Give me the lace. There's a whole series of letters from Martha Washington to her granddaughter, Nellie when Nellie is doing similar thing and she's out in DC society. And Martha is just like panicking over not being able to get her dresses on time. It's a good little series of letters. She's writing these notes so quickly that she doesn't date them. So we don't even know if it's like, all for the same event or if it's for different events. But it's kind of fun seeing the grandmother fret over making sure that her granddaughter is able to go out looking very nice. That's sweet. Yeah, so that is this letter, it hit all the things I like in women's correspondence at this time. It's got gossip, it's that little she's trying to be funny. It's describing a party. I just got a big kick out of it.

Katie Blizzard  
And I can see why. It paints a very vivid scene as to what's happening, at least one evening in Washington society. And I always love the endings of letters, the last few paragraphs, as you get to see all the different relations that they find important and all the different types of correspondence and friends that they want to connect with in each letter. And you know that people receive a letter and they're sharing it with their friends and family saying, I heard from so and so. Here. Why don't you read their letter? So it's a great way to call out those people that might actually read the letter as well.

Kathryn Gehred  
It's like, I don't know. I was gonna say, looking over somebody's shoulder, but like, I actually did that to you. What's perhaps a more polite

Katie Blizzard  
scene is in the Gwyneth Paltrow version of Emma. When the neighbor has the letter in from her cousin, Emma comes over for tea and she's sharing the water with everyone and reading it aloud. It's a great scene.

Kathryn Gehred  
Yes, yes. That's exactly why I like reading these letters that don't feel like it's too nosy because they're writing these things to share. And what a great writer she is. I think that she really described things well and she covers everything you're supposed to. Thank you for coming on the podcast and talking about this with me, Katie. Well, thank

Katie Blizzard  
you for having me. As always, it's been a delight.

Kathryn Gehred  
As for my listeners, I will put some more information about this letter and where you can find it in the show notes. I am as ever, your most obedient and humble servant. Thank you very much.

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