Episode 58: Our Unnatural Enemies May Be Turned From Us

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Kathryn Gehred: Hello and
welcome to Your Most Obedient &

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Humble Servant. This is a
women's history podcast where we

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feature 18th and early 19th
century letters that don't get

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as much attention as we think
they should. I am your host

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Kathryn Gehred. Today I am
thrilled to welcome Dr. Emily

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Sneff to the podcast. Emily is a
historian of early America and a

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leading expert on the United
States Declaration of

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Independence. She is currently a
consulting curator for the

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semiquincentennial of the
Declaration of Independence with

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the Museum of the American
Revolution, the American

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Philosophical Society, and
Historic Trap. Welcome to the

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podcast, Emily.

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Emily Sneff: Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.

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Kathryn Gehred: We're really
excited to have you. So you have

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a book that's going to be coming
out next year, right? Can you

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tell me a little bit about it?

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Emily Sneff: I do, yeah, it's
going to be with Oxford

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University Press sometime in
early 2026 and it's about the

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Declaration of Independence in
1776 so how the news initially

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spread around the Atlantic, and
the reactions to it and the sort

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of diplomatic and military
stories that we often overlook

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because we forget that there was
a moment where no one knew if

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independence was actually going
to be secured. So it's really

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interesting to think about the
contingencies and the sort of

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different emotions associated
with the declaration in 1776

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when no one knew that we'd still
be here 250 years later.

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Kathryn Gehred: That's super
fascinating. I used to be a tour

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guide at Thomas Jefferson's
Monticello, and so you start to

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hear things about, like the
Dunlap broadside and like

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different versions that still
exist as, sort of like

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collectors editions of the
Declaration of Independence, and

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there's this, like whole sort of
world surrounding it that I've

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always thought was really
interesting, and you'd never

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know when you're giving a tour
if somebody was going to know a

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ton about it or have no idea.

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Emily Sneff: Like me, I tried,
when I last toured Monticello, I

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tried to hang back and not
really comment on anything, but

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my parents were looking at me
like, you know about that, don't

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you?

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Kathryn Gehred: If you get a
guest that knows a ton, it can

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be wonderful or it can be
terrible. Yeah, that's awesome.

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What sparked your interest in
the Declaration of Independence?

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Emily Sneff: So I kind of backed
my way into early American

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history. I studied medieval
history and museum studies in my

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undergraduate time at Johns
Hopkins, and I was coming into

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the museum world at a time where
there were not a lot of jobs. So

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I was volunteering and just
trying to get as much experience

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as possible. And I ended up
helping out at the American

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Philosophical Society on a
research project about their

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bust of Thomas Jefferson by Jean
Antoine Houdon. And I knew

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nothing about Jefferson, knew
nothing about the founding era,

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and just kind of started
researching, ended up helping

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out with a series of exhibitions
that they were doing on

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Jefferson. And the first one was
about Jefferson and the

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declaration. And the APS has a
really phenomenal collection of

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unique copies of the Declaration
of Independence. So I started

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realizing, like this thing, that
I thought we knew everything

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about the founding document of
the United States early in

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American history. Actually,
there's still a lot to do, still

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a lot to uncover, and that was
10 years ago, and now I'm here,

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so yeah, it's been a really
interesting trajectory. And I'm

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from Philadelphia originally.
It's a great place to, you know,

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study the declaration and to
think about the Declaration's

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impact. So I'm always walking
past Independence Hall and just

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kind of, you know, soaking all
of the history behind this

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document in but also trying to
make it approachable for people

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who do not live here and may not
have as close of a connection to

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the founding era as I have sort
of developed over the last 10

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years.

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Kathryn Gehred: Cool. Do you
have a favorite edition of the

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Declaration of Independence?

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Emily Sneff: I have favorite
editions of the declaration for

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like design purposes or because
they were owned by a particular

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person, but I also have copies
that really frustrate me. So

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there's one copy that has, like
haunted me for literally 10

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years at this point at the
American Philosophical Society,

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and it's a broadside printed by
John Dunlap on parchment. And it

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seems as though it was printed
after he did his sort of initial

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batch of hundreds of copies on
the night of July 4 into July 5.

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But this is on parchment, and
it's a different type setting,

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and over the course of
researching and coming back to

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it and stepping away from it. I
still have not been able to

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solve the mystery of why exactly
he created this copy. And the

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added wrinkle is it ended up in
the hands of David Rittenhouse

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and was given to the American
Philosophical Society after his

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death. And I descended from
David Rittenhouse's sister.

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Kathryn Gehred: Oh!

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Emily Sneff: So I have this
personal connection too, that

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makes it even more aggravating
that I can't figure out why

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exactly this copy was printed,
what its purpose was. So maybe

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someday I'll solve that mystery.

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Kathryn Gehred: Uncle David help
us out!

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Emily Sneff: I know you would
think like telepathically, I

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might be able to have some sort
of seance and figure out.

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Exactly this copy existed, but
no.

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Kathryn Gehred: Oh, that's
fascinating. So with all of your

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decade of research into this,
what's something that you wish

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more people understood about the
Declaration of Independence?

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Emily Sneff: I always encourage
people just read the Declaration

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of Independence, because I think
a lot of Americans, but also

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people around the world, because
the declaration has had such,

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you know, a huge impact in
legacy. They think they know

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what's in the Declaration of
Independence, but every time I

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read it, and I'm, you know, in
the thousands of times at this

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point, I noticed something that
I hadn't noticed before. And it

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can seem as if it's an
antiquated document. It can seem

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as though the grievances against
King George III have no relation

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to modern life, but when you
read the declaration, you'll

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find things that you can relate
to. And I think, as we approach

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the 250 and hopefully, a lot of
public readings of the

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declaration and sort of
celebrations, but also critiques

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of it, people will pay attention
to the text. It's only 1300

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words. It doesn't take you that
long to read it. So that's what

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I encourage people to do.

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Kathryn Gehred: Thats awesome.
One of my favorite ways to

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celebrate the Fourth of July is
to, like, attend a public

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reading of the Declaration of
Independence, because that is

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the type of nerd that I am.

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Emily Sneff: That's a good type
of nerd.

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Kathryn Gehred: And then also,
it's really powerful to read

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that alongside the Frederick
Douglass What to a Slave is the

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Declaration of Independence in
the Fourth of July?

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Emily Sneff: Absolutely,

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Kathryn Gehred: I just always
find that really meaningful to

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think about.

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Emily Sneff: Yeah for the
exhibit that I've been working

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on with the Museum of the
American Revolution, I've become

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more familiar with these other
declarations and sort of

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commentaries that came later. So
I knew about the Declaration of

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Sentiments in 1848 I didn't know
about the 1876 Women's

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Declaration of Rights that they
actuallyinterrupted the

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celebration at Independence Hall
on July 4, 1876 to present their

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declaration. So there's so many
documents out there that, like,

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if you pair them up, either you
know, for your own personal

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interest or with students, it's
really effective to kind of get

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a sense of where the language
falls short, or where it sets

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out promises that people come
back to generations later. So

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definitely, studying the
declaration in context is

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important.

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Kathryn Gehred: Thank you.
That's, I think, a great setup.

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Today we're going to be talking
about a letter that talks about

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one of these early prints of the
Declaration of Independence. I'm

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really excited. I had not heard
of this before you sent it to

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me, and I just thought it was
super fascinating.

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Emily Sneff: Oh, great.

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Kathryn Gehred: Today, we're
going to look at a letter from

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Mary, mostly called Polly Palmer
to John Adams, written in

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Germantown, Massachusetts, on
August 4, 1776 so to sort of set

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up the context, who was Polly
Palmer?

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Emily Sneff: Polly Palmer was
born in 1746 so she would have

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been 30 years old in 1776
Unfortunately, she died in 1791

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so she had a really short life.
She was the daughter of Joseph

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Palmer and Mary Cranch, and if
you can follow the family tree,

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Mary Cranche's brother was
Richard Cranch, who was married

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to Mary Smith, whose sister was
Abigail Smith, who was married

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to John Adams. So they are all
related. You know, sort of kins

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woman of the Adams. Polly's a
really fascinating person,

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because we have very few kind of
records of what her life was

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like. We have an account from
her grand niece that sort of

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records what her later life was
like, and then we have a handful

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of letters, but as far as we can
tell, when she was a young

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woman, she was vivacious, she
was like, everyone's favorite

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person. She was super smart. She
would ride into town. They lived

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in Germantown, outside of
Boston, and she would ride into

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Boston to chat up her father's
business associates and come

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back, you know, after the sun
had set, and her mother was so

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worried about her riding on her
own, like, you can just get a

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sense of like she had a really
fascinating personality and a

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lot of potential. And when she
was 19, so that was in 1765, she

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suffered from a nervous
disorder. The story is that her

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father was bragging about how
awesome she was to a friend of

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his, and, you know, said she
wasn't scared of anything. And

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this friend said, Okay, let's
test that, and fired a gun above

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her head while she was sort of
napping. And from that moment,

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she suffered from seizures. And
her health, both physical and

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mental health, declined
throughout the rest of her life.

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So it's really as this had story
of someone who, you know, we can

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tell was a really big
personality who starts to kind

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of shrivel up, according to the
letters that survive after this

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moment at such a young age. So
ultimately, she doesn't marry,

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she doesn't have children, she
stays with family members the

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rest of her life, and she's
remembered by her grandniece as

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sort of poor aunt, Polly, which
is really quite sad. So I love

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that, talking about this letter
in particular, we get a sense of

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how she still had agency in her
life, and how she still was a

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dynamic person, even if. One
else sort of remembered her in a

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different way.

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Kathryn Gehred: That's like,
just trying to think of, like,

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why you would shoot a gun over
somebody's head. Like, that's

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messed up.

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Emily Sneff: It's really, you
know, it's tragic, yeah, the

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story of the family is that her
father was devastated by the

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role that he played in this so,
yeah, it's really unfortunate.

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How did you first learn about
Polly? So I first came across

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Polly Palmer in the fall of
2020. I had just finished my

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graduate exams in the pandemic,
not really sure when I would be

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able to do research for this big
transatlantic project that I had

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in mind. I was grieving the loss
of my father. I was just like

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facing a lot of uncertainty,
and, you know, studying the

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Declaration of Independence, you
have people like Thomas

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Jefferson and John Adams who are
hard to relate to. And I came

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across this 30 year old single
woman as a 30 year old single

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woman myself facing similar
uncertainty, right? Like, not

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that we can exactly compare the
pandemic to the Revolutionary

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War, but a similar state of,
like, not really knowing what

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comes next, being worried about
your physical safety, your

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family's health. So I just
immediately was like, Okay, now

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I get this perspective, like I
finally have someone that I can

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connect with. So I felt a real
kinship with her, so much so

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that literally, the first lines
of my dissertation that I wrote

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were about her, because I just
had the spark of an idea that I

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can actually relate to this
person. And she also sums up

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really well the thesis of both
my book project and sort of my

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approach to the declaration in
general, which is there's a much

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more expansive history of the
founding of the United States

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out there, if we step outside of
Independence Hall and we think

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about where the declaration went
and the people who received that

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news and lived through this
moment, rather than just

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focusing on the men who drafted
and debated and signed the

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Declaration, like John Adams.

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Kathryn Gehred: Yeah, you've
mentioned that she's related to

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Emily Sneff: They had a really
interesting friendship that

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00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:57,810
John Adams through the Cranches,
but what was her relationship

224
00:11:57,810 --> 00:11:58,710
like with John Adams?

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00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:09,000
lasted through the end of her
life when they were young,

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00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,540
before she had this nervous
disorder, they were actually

227
00:12:12,540 --> 00:12:16,470
inoculated for smallpox at the
same time in Boston. But there's

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00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:19,680
this really interesting sort of
moment where all of their

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00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,620
friends and sort of family
members kind of hole up together

230
00:12:22,650 --> 00:12:26,610
and go through inoculation.
Abigail is not involved, because

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00:12:26,610 --> 00:12:29,820
her parents were worried about
her being inoculated, but John

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00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:33,000
and Polly and other friends go
through inoculation together,

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00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,210
and it's a bonding experience.
And the letters from that time

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00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:40,110
are some of the clues of what
her life was like after she and

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00:12:40,110 --> 00:12:44,100
John were both feeling better.
The worst symptoms had subsided.

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00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:48,120
They used a wagon and drove all
around town to get fresh air.

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00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:51,390
And it's really, it's lovely to
think about. So she was part of

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00:12:51,390 --> 00:12:55,020
this friend group, and they all
used pseudonyms. So she used the

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00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:58,620
pseudonym Myra, another friend,
Eunice Payne, used the synonym

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00:12:58,620 --> 00:13:02,190
of Sylvia, and they wrote these
letters back and forth to each

241
00:13:02,190 --> 00:13:05,610
other. So she was certainly
friends with John Adams from

242
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,330
when she was young through all
of his political career. And

243
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:12,750
actually, the last letter that
we have of hers is from the time

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00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:16,770
when he is preparing his library
to actually move to his new

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00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:20,820
office as Vice President of the
United States, and she's helping

246
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:24,540
to catalog his library. She's
living in the Adams home at that

247
00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:29,460
time, so there's only snippets
along the way of her connection

248
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:33,630
to both John and Abigail Adams
in the Adams papers. But they

249
00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:36,270
certainly were friends. They
were not just acquaintances or

250
00:13:36,270 --> 00:13:37,440
neighbors. They were friends.

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00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,410
Kathryn Gehred: There's a
historical fiction novel that I

252
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:43,860
read called Octavia Nothing.
There's a whole section in that

253
00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:46,650
book that's about a smallpox
party where they, like, invite

254
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,650
everybody to a house and they
give everybody smallpox at the

255
00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:52,110
same time. It doesn't sound like
that's exactly what happened

256
00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:54,780
here. Just reading about that
did make me think about, you

257
00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:58,230
know, it's scary to be
inoculated back then and to go

258
00:13:58,230 --> 00:14:00,630
through this like, hopefully
gentler version of the sickness.

259
00:14:00,930 --> 00:14:03,270
I can imagine that would really
create a bond between people who

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00:14:03,270 --> 00:14:04,470
all went through that together.

261
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,080
Emily Sneff: I think so, yeah,
and we can tell even like

262
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,830
Abigail feels really left out,
like she's worried about her

263
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:13,680
fiance going through
inoculation, she's, you know,

264
00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:17,160
worried for his physical health,
but she also feels jealous that

265
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,090
he's spending this time with her
friends And she's not there. So

266
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,990
you tend to forget how young
these people were. You know,

267
00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:27,180
when we put them up on a
pedestal, we forget that they

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00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:31,680
are young. And you know, you can
imagine a young Abigail Smith at

269
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,320
that time being like man I have
FOMO!

270
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,270
Kathryn Gehred: John Adams is
not my area of expertise, but I

271
00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:41,880
just imagine him a lot as Paul
Giamatti in the the mini series,

272
00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:48,300
a young Paul Giamatti hanging
out with smallpox, a little bit

273
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:52,590
of setup of their relationship.
This letter is from fourth

274
00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:57,000
August, 1776 most people have a
general idea of what John Adams

275
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,810
is doing in August of 1776 what
sort of is. Going on in his

276
00:15:00,810 --> 00:15:04,350
life. Where's he? What's the
context for John Adams? John

277
00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:04,500
Adams

278
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:07,390
Emily Sneff: is still in
Philadelphia, and at this point,

279
00:15:07,390 --> 00:15:11,830
he has found out that his wife
and children are being

280
00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:15,400
inoculated for smallpox. But
Abigail had made the decision to

281
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,160
inoculate her children, a
decision that her parents didn't

282
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,220
feel comfortable with for her
she made for her children during

283
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:23,890
the small window when
inoculation was allowed in

284
00:15:23,890 --> 00:15:27,250
Boston. But she didn't want John
to find out, because she knew

285
00:15:27,250 --> 00:15:30,370
that he was working on
Independence and the Articles of

286
00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:33,910
Confederation and foreign
treaties and being the chair of

287
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:37,060
the board of war like he has a
lot going on. So she tried to

288
00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:41,050
keep that secret from him. He
found out anyway, and became

289
00:15:41,050 --> 00:15:44,590
distraught. We're in this sort
of month of time where he does

290
00:15:44,590 --> 00:15:48,700
not know what's going on in
Boston. He, you know, has sort

291
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,130
of a sense from letters that
he's getting from different

292
00:15:51,130 --> 00:15:55,210
people, including from Polly,
but he is worried about his

293
00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:58,840
family, and so I think the back
and forth that he and Polly

294
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,270
Palmer have it spread out over
the course of a couple of

295
00:16:01,270 --> 00:16:04,330
months, just because of the pace
of mail, and as we'll talk

296
00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:07,960
about, the shortage of paper.
But you can imagine that when he

297
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,080
did receive this letter that
we're going to talk about it at

298
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,110
least brought him a little bit
of calm to get some news from

299
00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:16,750
Boston at this time, when he was
really worried because he was so

300
00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:19,780
busy in Philadelphia, but he
really did want to be in Boston

301
00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:23,020
with his family. And what's
going on in Polly's life. It's

302
00:16:23,020 --> 00:16:25,630
hard to read between the lines
and get a sense of exactly what

303
00:16:25,630 --> 00:16:28,480
was going on in her life the way
that we can when someone like

304
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,450
John Adams, whose daily
movements are pretty well

305
00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:35,530
recorded, but she had just made
it through the British

306
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,680
occupation of Boston, she and
her family lived in Germantown,

307
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,650
which is outside of Boston, so
they would have been able to see

308
00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:45,100
and hear everything that was
happening during the battles

309
00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:48,220
from Lexington and Concord
through to Bunker Hill,

310
00:16:48,250 --> 00:16:51,220
everything that was happening in
the harbor. And it would have

311
00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:55,210
been a really hard year to
experience that, to know what

312
00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:57,670
was happening with your
neighbors after the evacuation

313
00:16:57,670 --> 00:17:00,400
of Boston that was immediately
followed by this smallpox

314
00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:04,390
outbreak that leads to mass
inoculations to try to curb it,

315
00:17:04,930 --> 00:17:07,930
so she was safe from that. But
obviously, at the time of a lot

316
00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:11,620
of people moving in and out and
uncertainty, her father was

317
00:17:11,650 --> 00:17:14,980
helping with the militia. So
there's a sort of military

318
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:19,060
energy in her household. So you
can imagine that it was pretty

319
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:23,170
busy. There was a lot happening
around you, but also still a lot

320
00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:25,810
of uncertainty, not really
knowing what was going to happen

321
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:29,170
next. I imagine, for somebody
who has a little bit of trauma

322
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:32,530
surrounding gunfire, to suddenly
be in a city that you can hear

323
00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:34,780
cannons and things like that,
probably wasn't great for her,

324
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,750
absolutely. Yeah, that was my
first impression when I when I

325
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:40,570
really started to sit with these
letters between Polly Palmer and

326
00:17:40,570 --> 00:17:44,140
John Adams, and think about this
nervous condition that she had.

327
00:17:44,140 --> 00:17:47,290
You don't want to diagnose
medical conditions of the past,

328
00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:50,620
but I have to imagine that there
was some sort of PTSD involved.

329
00:17:50,620 --> 00:17:53,470
And you can kind of tell not in
these letters, though she does

330
00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:57,010
talk about gunfire and action
happening in the harbor, but in

331
00:17:57,010 --> 00:18:00,280
other letters that she wrote to
friends, she talks about being

332
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,420
scared of thunder, and I have to
imagine that it was really

333
00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:07,360
challenging for her, and it may
not have been something that she

334
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,260
felt comfortable sharing with
John, but surely her family knew

335
00:18:11,470 --> 00:18:14,770
that it was hard for her to live
through this occupation.

336
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:17,380
Kathryn Gehred: Any other sort
of final context you want to

337
00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:18,400
share before we jump in?

338
00:18:18,430 --> 00:18:19,330
Emily Sneff: No, I think that's
good.

339
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,940
Kathryn Gehred: And now for the
letter.

340
00:18:20,100 --> 00:19:21,803
Her writing style is so good. I
love that she signs with Myra as

341
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:30,310
Mary Palmer to John Adams,
Germantown, 4 August 1776 Sir,

342
00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:33,190
I had the honour of your letter
of the 5th July above a

343
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:35,920
fortnight ago, and should much
sooner have acknowledged the

344
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,570
favor had not an absolute want
of Paper prevented, having none

345
00:18:40,570 --> 00:18:43,060
but blank Commissions in the
House which we used for little

346
00:18:43,060 --> 00:18:46,630
Billets, but wou’d not do to
send to the Congress. You do me

347
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:49,360
great honor in receiving my
Account of the Evacuation of the

348
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:52,810
Harbour so well. I am sensible
it was very imperfect, but it

349
00:18:52,810 --> 00:18:56,320
was the best I cou’d do at the
time from my informations. One

350
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,680
thing I think I greatly err’d
in, which was that the Ships did

351
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,680
not return the fire upon Long
Island, which I am since

352
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,700
inform’d they did by those who
were Eye Witnesses. I shou’d not

353
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,370
have mention’d it now, but that
I am loth that any

354
00:19:09,370 --> 00:19:12,310
misinformation of mind shou’d
lead to a false Account of a

355
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:14,920
Fact which ought to be
represented as it really was,

356
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:19,150
and transmitted to future ages.
Your Compliments are sufficient

357
00:19:19,180 --> 00:19:22,150
to make one vain, but still I
make Allowances for the

358
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:25,420
Privilege the Gentlemen assume
of “flattering the other sex a

359
00:19:22,767 --> 00:20:19,649
you've set up as their their
sort of nicknames from back in

360
00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:28,570
little.” And perhaps it may be
tho’t necessary sometimes in

361
00:19:28,570 --> 00:19:32,200
order to ease us of that Bashful
Diffidence so natural to most of

362
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,380
us—A Plea for Flattering which I
think the Gentlemen much oblig’d

363
00:19:35,410 --> 00:19:38,530
me for. You really make me proud
by desiring my future

364
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,800
Correspondance, and I will not
in hopes of being again ask’d

365
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:45,610
decline the favour. All I shall
say is this, that whenever there

366
00:19:45,610 --> 00:19:48,610
is any event of a Public Nature
happens of which I can give you

367
00:19:48,610 --> 00:19:51,640
a proper Account to the best of
my Abilities, it will give me

368
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,730
pleasure to do it; but at
present there seems little

369
00:19:54,730 --> 00:19:57,970
Likelihood of any such in these
parts but what will be better

370
00:19:57,970 --> 00:20:01,330
told by your good Lady, to whom
I shall cheerfully resign the

371
00:20:01,330 --> 00:20:04,720
Pen on her Recovery from the
Small Pox. There is nothing

372
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,600
gives Papa much more Concern
than his not being able to get

373
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,200
time to write to You and Mr.
Paine, oftener than he does; It

374
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,890
is impossible for one Man to do
more than he does, his time is

375
00:20:14,890 --> 00:20:18,610
wholly bestow’d on the Publick,
both by Day and Night; It is but

376
00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:21,910
3 Days in 2 Years that he has
been at Home on his private

377
00:20:20,613 --> 00:21:18,460
the day. So she mentions that
she sent him an account of the

378
00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:25,570
Affairs, and even part of those
3 days have been employed either

379
00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:30,010
in writing Expresses or Planning
Forts. Few Gentlemen cou’d say

380
00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:33,550
the same. He is now the chief
Commander at Hull in the Room of

381
00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:37,150
Genll. Lincoln who is
inoculated, and very busy every

382
00:20:37,150 --> 00:20:40,060
Hour he can steal from Business
or Sleep in Planning

383
00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:43,900
Fortifications and Salt Works. I
am sorry the former are still

384
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:47,470
wanted in our Harbour but every
Body is not so Active as Papa,

385
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,970
if they were they wou’d not be
to be Plannd now. I most

386
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:54,880
sincerely thank you for your
Present of the Declaration of

387
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,050
Independancy; nothing cou’d have
given me more pleasure. It was

388
00:20:59,050 --> 00:21:02,170
universally receive’d with Joy
by the friends of their Country.

389
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,470
I don’t know what the Tories
think but I believe they say

390
00:21:05,470 --> 00:21:09,340
nothing. As this is a very
important, so I hope it may be a

391
00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:12,760
very happy Revolution and that
the latest Posterity may have

392
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,900
Reason to look back to the Year
1776, as the happy Era of their

393
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:21,220
Liberties being secur’d by the
Wisdom of the Congress. How

394
00:21:19,424 --> 00:22:24,020
evacuation of the harbor. Can
you tell me a little more about that?

395
00:21:21,220 --> 00:21:24,580
pleasing is the reflexion of
every true Patriot to be assur’d

396
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:27,970
of having done his duty to his
God and Country and of having

397
00:21:27,970 --> 00:21:31,000
his Memory rever’d by his
Descendants and Countrymen to

398
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,510
the End of Time. The first of
this Month was kept as a Day of

399
00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:37,840
Fasting and Prayer by this
Colony. I hope that our repeated

400
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,810
Petitions to the Throne of Grace
will be Accepted, and that our

401
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:45,010
unnatural Enemies may be turned
from us. I can say little of

402
00:21:45,010 --> 00:21:48,400
your family, only that we hear
they are Comfortable. Ours is

403
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,580
pretty well, except Miss Paine
who has an ill turn, occasion’d

404
00:21:51,580 --> 00:21:55,090
by overdoing herself at Work
Yesterday. I hope it won’t last

405
00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:58,870
long but at present she is very
ill. As I don’t know but my

406
00:21:58,870 --> 00:22:01,480
Letter may find the Way to
Staten Island You will excuse my

407
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,450
not butting my name to it any
further than that of your humble

408
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,310
Servt., Myra

409
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,480
Emily Sneff: Yeah, on June 15,
she writes this letter to John

410
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,420
Adams, and I love how she
starts, because if you know that

411
00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:32,880
they're friends, that their
relationship pre exists this

412
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,570
moment, this is such an awkward
sentence to start a letter with.

413
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,080
She says, you will wonder at
receiving a letter from one who

414
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,050
is very far from being
sufficiently qualified to write

415
00:22:43,050 --> 00:22:46,440
to a member of the grand
Congress, but I am under

416
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,040
parental injunctions to do it,
which every good child ought to

417
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,150
obey. That is such an awkward
opening line. It's as if they

418
00:22:54,150 --> 00:22:57,510
have never met, never spoken.
But, I mean, she's basically

419
00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:00,720
just saying, like, I recognize
that we are no longer, you know,

420
00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,720
just hanging out as friends up
here in Massachusetts, you're

421
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,950
serving in the Continental
Congress in Philadelphia. And

422
00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:13,560
clearly, her father had wanted
to send an account to John

423
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,710
Adams, and didn't have the time
to do so, so she writes one for

424
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:22,200
him. And basically, if you think
about this moment the British

425
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,270
had evacuated in March of 1776
so now we're in June, and the

426
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:30,960
harbor is still not completely
secured. So most of the

427
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,250
Continental Army had left Boston
and gone to New York to prepare

428
00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:40,470
for a likely British attack
there. But Boston is sort of

429
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:45,150
still in this kind of transitory
moment. So Polly's father is

430
00:23:45,150 --> 00:23:48,480
involved in the fortifications
that are being developed for the

431
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,350
city with this sort of smaller
contingent of the Continental

432
00:23:52,350 --> 00:23:56,280
Army that's also kind of
protecting this important harbor

433
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,990
from any British ships coming
back. So Polly writes a letter

434
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:05,310
on June 15 to John Adams, and
she describes a sort of

435
00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:09,000
confrontation between ships in
the harbor. And she does a

436
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,170
really good job of recounting,
kind of hour by hour, what was

437
00:24:13,170 --> 00:24:18,240
happening. And it seems like she
wrote the bulk of the letter and

438
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,570
then added to it as she got more
information, but also as she was

439
00:24:21,570 --> 00:24:25,560
waiting for an opportunity to
send it. So she addressed this

440
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,880
letter to John Adams. She signed
it Polly Palmer. Then she added

441
00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:32,970
some information that she had
gotten from her father, exact

442
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:36,300
numbers of you know, the
different militia groups that

443
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:40,050
were involved in the locations.
And then she adds another note

444
00:24:40,050 --> 00:24:43,800
the following day, adding more
information. And so this is a

445
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,130
letter that she kept adding to
but the whole time, she has this

446
00:24:47,130 --> 00:24:50,460
sort of energy that we see in
her August letter as well. Of

447
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:54,720
like, I don't quite know if I'm
qualified to do this, to give

448
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,860
you this information, so it's
really hedging and anxious. And

449
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,050
you know, to the best of my.
Knowledge to the best of the

450
00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:04,140
information that I have, this is
what I'm giving you, but that's

451
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:08,460
the account that she sends. And
given the timing of mail at this

452
00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:12,510
moment, John Adams would have
received this June 15 letter

453
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,830
around July 1, which is when the
Continental Congress resumes its

454
00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:20,250
debate on whether or not to
declare independence. So busy

455
00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:24,150
week, but he ends up receiving
this account, as well as a

456
00:25:24,150 --> 00:25:28,260
couple of others, and he is glad
to know again, what's happening

457
00:25:28,260 --> 00:25:32,040
in Boston, and both on a
personal level, but also in his

458
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,340
position on the board of war,
thinking about, how can we

459
00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:39,900
fortify Boston? How can we make
sure that the city is not at

460
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:43,260
greater risk than it needs to be
given all the other places that

461
00:25:43,260 --> 00:25:45,300
the Continental Army needs to be
at this time?

462
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,340
Kathryn Gehred: I fell like
that's really significant for,

463
00:25:47,340 --> 00:25:50,130
like, the history of gender in
the American Revolution,

464
00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:52,200
particularly of white women and
gender of the revolution.

465
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,350
Because she's doing an important
job. She's passing along a

466
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:58,860
military correspondence, but
she's acknowledging, I actually

467
00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:01,290
find that relatable, of her
being like, I am giving you

468
00:26:01,290 --> 00:26:05,520
important military information,
and this is not my job. I'm so

469
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,510
sorry if I mess this up. I'm
doing my best. This is not what

470
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:14,070
I signed up for, exactly, but
her dad trusts her enough. Okay,

471
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:16,680
I'm too busy to do this. You do
this, and then she does a good

472
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,220
job.

473
00:26:17,390 --> 00:26:21,020
Emily Sneff: She does! John
Adams tells Abigail that Polly

474
00:26:21,020 --> 00:26:24,890
Palmer gave him a more accurate
account than anyone else. So we

475
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:27,500
know that she did a good job of
this, even though she feels like

476
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,020
she needs to correct the
numbers. She doesn't want any

477
00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:33,320
decisions to be made on a false
account that she accidentally

478
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,920
gave. But yeah, she does a good
job, and her reason for writing

479
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,060
it beyond her father probably
asking her to do so is Abigail

480
00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:44,090
Adams, who's typically in
Braintree with her children on

481
00:26:44,090 --> 00:26:49,040
their farm, was in Plymouth that
week, so she was close enough to

482
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,850
the Adams family that she knew
that Abigail was away and that

483
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,240
no one would be writing to John
Adams. So she has an awareness

484
00:26:56,270 --> 00:27:00,470
of communication networks, and
even though she does not feel

485
00:27:00,470 --> 00:27:03,560
qualified to do this, and, you
know, maybe hasn't written to

486
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,250
him before. Maybe has only kind
of been in conversation with him

487
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:09,830
in person, and their friendship
has existed sort of face to

488
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:13,400
face. She feels like I have to
do this. I have to write this

489
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,090
letter to the grand Congress.
So, yeah, really intimidating.

490
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:18,890
Kathryn Gehred: What did John
think of the information that he

491
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:21,320
got when he got this very
apologetic opening letter.

492
00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:23,970
Emily Sneff: So John Adams
receives this letter the first

493
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:27,210
week of July. Obviously he's
also voting to declare

494
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:30,510
independence from Great Britain,
and his letters from this week

495
00:27:30,510 --> 00:27:33,570
are very well known. He writes
two letters to Abigail Adams

496
00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:37,290
that are really well known for
the way that he talks about how

497
00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:39,900
the Fourth of July, he thinks
it's the second of July, but how

498
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:42,810
Independence Day is going to be
remembered by generations to

499
00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:46,620
come. So he is on a roll with
his letter writing this week,

500
00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:51,840
and on July 5, he writes to
Polly to thank her for this

501
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,750
account that he thought was
really well done, explaining

502
00:27:54,750 --> 00:27:58,020
exactly what had happened in
Boston Harbor. And he says,

503
00:27:58,020 --> 00:28:01,800
You've given me, notwithstanding
all your modest apologies, an

504
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,220
account that was written with
elegance and to minute and

505
00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:08,970
circumstantial narration of what
happened in the harbor. I always

506
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:12,510
say that John Adams uses a
lovingly condescending tone to

507
00:28:12,510 --> 00:28:15,960
the women in his life. He does
so with Abigail, and he does so

508
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,220
with Polly. And in this letter
that he writes on July 5, he

509
00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:24,150
says, in times as turbulent as
these, commend me to the ladies.

510
00:28:24,150 --> 00:28:27,600
For historiographers, the
gentlemen are too much engaged

511
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:33,870
in action. The ladies are cooler
spectators and fine. The men are

512
00:28:33,870 --> 00:28:38,040
busy. The women need to step up
and do the writing. Okay? But I

513
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,490
think what he's really saying is
that the people involved in the

514
00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:45,270
action are almost too close to
it. And so a woman like Polly,

515
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:50,400
who is informed and educated and
connected to the people who have

516
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,030
the information that he needs,
can write an account that's more

517
00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:57,630
of a sort of history of what was
happening. And so she did a good

518
00:28:57,630 --> 00:29:01,650
job of that, and he kind of
treats her as if this is

519
00:29:01,650 --> 00:29:03,690
something that she could
continue to do.

520
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:15,360
Emily Sneff: We can ask Mercy
Otis Warren what she thinks

521
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,295
Kathryn Gehred: I'm just going
to jump in and say I do believe

522
00:29:06,353 --> 00:29:10,103
that women are better at history
than men. I'll go on record and

523
00:29:10,161 --> 00:29:13,560
say that that's my belief and
that John Adams backs me up.

524
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:15,810
about that.

525
00:29:18,270 --> 00:29:21,150
Yeah, it's exactly like you say.
He's being a little

526
00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:23,460
condescending. I know that this
is just the way people wrote

527
00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:26,160
letters back then, but his
letter feels a little bit flirty

528
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,800
to me, the way he's writing to
her, like, Oh, you did such a

529
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,790
nice job.

530
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:33,230
He does, yeah, he addresses it
Miss Polly, which I think is

531
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:35,810
cute, but it also confirms that
that's, you know, what her

532
00:29:35,810 --> 00:29:40,550
friends called her, if you think
of how his week was going, right

533
00:29:40,550 --> 00:29:45,140
that he is exhausted and
relieved at finally having

534
00:29:45,140 --> 00:29:48,410
declared independence and
approved the Declaration of

535
00:29:48,410 --> 00:29:51,080
Independence and been part of
that process, and he's starting

536
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,020
to work on a new seal for the
United States, and he's

537
00:29:54,020 --> 00:29:56,330
preparing for an attack on New
York, like he has a lot going

538
00:29:56,330 --> 00:30:00,470
on, and yet he takes the time to
write a pretty lengthy. Letter

539
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,450
to his friend, complimenting
her. And you can tell that he

540
00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:08,510
has this sort of like, I don't
know if flirty is the right

541
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:11,720
word, but just like congenial
tone to him that like he's

542
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,020
delighted to have received a
letter from her, and he's also

543
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:18,200
grateful for the information she
gave but he's sort of like

544
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:21,200
reflecting on the fact that,
like you could do this, I rely

545
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,650
on women to give me accounts of
what's going on. It's a letter

546
00:30:24,650 --> 00:30:27,740
that has been sort of separated
from its context. It's been

547
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:31,010
treated for John Adams
perspective and not Polly's

548
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:34,970
perspective, and I think that's
missing a key part of the story

549
00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:37,280
that like for all of her
apologies and her sort of

550
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,420
anxiety about writing to him, he
is genuinely so glad to have

551
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:44,270
heard from her. That's kind of
nice to think about.

552
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,390
Kathryn Gehred: She does mention
that she gets the Declaration of

553
00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:49,910
Independence. She gets his
letter from John Adams, and she

554
00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:52,820
wants to write him back, but
there's no paper in the house.

555
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,000
She has these little things,
these military commissions on

556
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,490
them that they've been using in
the house, but they would not do

557
00:30:58,490 --> 00:31:01,820
to send to Congress. Was this
part of like a revolutionary war

558
00:31:01,820 --> 00:31:03,380
paper shortage. What was going
on there?

559
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,480
Emily Sneff: Definitely, so if
you think about the timeline. So

560
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,620
she writes to John on June 15.
He writes back on July 5, and he

561
00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:14,520
encloses, more than likely, one
of the first printings of the

562
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,090
Declaration of Independence to
her, probably one of John

563
00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:21,450
Dunlap's broadsides that he
printed the night of July 4. If

564
00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:23,730
he had included a different copy
of newspaper or something, he

565
00:31:23,730 --> 00:31:27,030
probably would have described it
differently. So we can assume

566
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:30,630
that this was one of the men who
worked on the Declaration of

567
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:35,160
Independence, enclosing one of
the first copies to this woman

568
00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:39,450
in Massachusetts. And that is
intimidating, right? You get

569
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:42,000
this letter that has this big
poster size copy of the

570
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,280
declaration folded up in it. She
writes back to him on August 4.

571
00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:50,880
So if you think about a sort of
two week window that it took for

572
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,080
mail to travel from Philadelphia
to Boston, she received his

573
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,830
letter around the middle of
July. That's when the news of

574
00:31:58,830 --> 00:32:01,740
the Declaration of Independence
reaches Abigail Adams and

575
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:06,420
everyone else in Boston. So She
then waited two weeks to write

576
00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:11,010
her response, and yeah, it's
certainly a reflection of

577
00:32:11,010 --> 00:32:14,460
shortages, wartime shortages.
Again, Boston is still

578
00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:18,420
recovering from the British
evacuation, and so she has the

579
00:32:18,420 --> 00:32:22,680
sort of like forms and like
things in her house that could

580
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,610
be used to write a letter, you
know, on the back of it, but

581
00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:29,280
that would be appropriate for
like sending a letter down the

582
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,430
street, a note to someone, not
for sending something to

583
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:36,660
Philadelphia. And the other
piece of this letter that's

584
00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:39,030
interesting at the end of it,
when she talks about the risk of

585
00:32:39,030 --> 00:32:42,300
it being intercepted, you
wouldn't necessarily want a

586
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:45,780
military commission blank,
though it is to be intercepted

587
00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:49,920
by the British. So she's really
being thoughtful as she waits

588
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,090
for, you know, a suitable piece
of paper to use. But yet, it's

589
00:32:54,090 --> 00:32:58,650
definitely a reflection of just
the material conditions of this

590
00:32:58,650 --> 00:33:02,220
period of time, and also her
awareness of like, the

591
00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:04,260
importance of her correspondent.

592
00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:06,420
Kathryn Gehred: That also comes
through to me a lot in this

593
00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:10,650
letter, where she she says, I'm
loathe that any misinformation

594
00:33:10,770 --> 00:33:13,260
could lead to a false account,
because things need to be

595
00:33:13,260 --> 00:33:17,040
transmitted to future ages. So
she knows that this is a

596
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,550
historical moment, and she knows
that she's writing with somebody

597
00:33:20,550 --> 00:33:23,190
who's kind of making history,
and that she's now a part of it,

598
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:26,700
and she's really deeply aware of
that. I think that's

599
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:29,010
interesting, because, like you
say, with the Declaration of

600
00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:32,730
Independence, they didn't know
what the impact was. But it

601
00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:35,190
seems like she is really
optimistic that this is going to

602
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:37,110
be a moment that's really
important.

603
00:33:37,220 --> 00:33:40,180
Emily Sneff: Absolutely, this
coincides with a moment where

604
00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:44,140
John Adams also realizes that
his papers are going to be

605
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,940
transmitted to future ages, and
he buys a letter book that he

606
00:33:48,940 --> 00:33:52,060
can start to keep an account of
the letters that he's receiving

607
00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:55,060
and sending. And he tells
Abigail, I wish I could send you

608
00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:58,540
one, because your letters are
much better than mine. And he

609
00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:01,920
wishes that they could create
some sort of archive. So we're

610
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,100
fortunate as historians to have
the Adams papers as this

611
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,680
resource of what was happening
during the revolution, and

612
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,400
especially the two sides, right?
We typically get the men writing

613
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,220
to their wives, but not the
wives responses to their

614
00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:17,700
husbands, which is maddening.
And here, you know, we have the

615
00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:20,720
same thing. We have the back and
forth with Polly that, you know,

616
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:23,360
I think she has an awareness,
and he has an awareness that

617
00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:27,800
someday someone might read what
she's writing. And so she wants

618
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,120
to make sure that the actual
product looks good, that it's

619
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,200
not scratched and, you know,
blotted and messy, and it's not

620
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,480
written on the back of some
piece of paper. She wants it to

621
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,220
be on a clean sheet of paper. So
I think that is very relatable.

622
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,790
Kathryn Gehred: And also she's
imagining future historians

623
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:48,510
reading this and being like,
that's not right, exactly, yeah,

624
00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:51,870
he got that wrong information
from this woman, yeah?

625
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,420
Emily Sneff: Like you don't want
to be a footnote for the wrong

626
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:55,470
reason, right?

627
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,630
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah, incredibly
relatable. So it seems like John

628
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:04,740
Adams, in his response is sort
of saying, hey, let's keep up a

629
00:35:04,740 --> 00:35:07,260
correspondence. Would this be
something that's sort of normal

630
00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:08,700
between men and women of this
time?

631
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:11,340
Emily Sneff: It's really
interesting because, yeah, he

632
00:35:11,490 --> 00:35:15,990
really wishes that she would
continue to write to him. And,

633
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:19,290
you know, I think, on the one
hand, he just wants as much

634
00:35:19,290 --> 00:35:23,340
information as possible from
Boston all the time. So in her

635
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:26,400
letter, she gives you know this
military information, but also

636
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,630
just updates on his family, her
family, all of the people that

637
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:34,650
they know. So I think he, you
know, would appreciate that, but

638
00:35:34,650 --> 00:35:38,670
I think he also admires her
writing style. And in a letter

639
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:42,780
to Abigail Adams, he compliments
Polly's writing style, and so

640
00:35:43,110 --> 00:35:45,510
you can imagine that he
legitimately wanted to keep a

641
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:48,750
correspondence. And it wasn't
that unusual, even though she

642
00:35:48,750 --> 00:35:52,650
was, you know, a single woman.
She's Abigail's family member.

643
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:55,470
They're part of this friend
group. It would not have been

644
00:35:55,470 --> 00:35:59,340
crazy for them to keep up a
correspondence. And John Adams

645
00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:02,040
keeps a correspondence with her
father. So it would have been

646
00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:06,120
easy to enclose, you know, her
letters within his letters to

647
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,690
send to Philadelphia, but Polly
is just not interested.

648
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,240
Kathryn Gehred: Where she says,
like, thank you very much. I'm

649
00:36:12,270 --> 00:36:15,210
very honored. Do you want to
have a correspondence with me?

650
00:36:15,330 --> 00:36:17,550
But you should write your wife.
Is that sort of how you take

651
00:36:17,550 --> 00:36:18,180
that section?

652
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,485
Emily Sneff: It is, yeah. I
mean, you can read it a few

653
00:36:20,545 --> 00:36:24,392
different ways. I think she must
have known, as we all know, that

654
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:37,380
Kathryn Gehred: She was, like,
adding to that first letter,

655
00:36:24,451 --> 00:36:27,884
Abigail Adams letters are
remarkable, right? She is a very

656
00:36:27,943 --> 00:36:31,317
good writer. She has some
spelling things and phraseology

657
00:36:31,376 --> 00:36:34,809
that is really interesting, but
she is detailed and she is

658
00:36:34,868 --> 00:36:38,065
emotional and she just her
letters are jam packed with

659
00:36:38,124 --> 00:36:41,734
information, and that's a high
standard, as her friend, I can

660
00:36:41,794 --> 00:36:45,167
imagine Polly Palmer, if she
knows that Abigail is out of

661
00:36:45,227 --> 00:36:48,423
town, then she knows that
there's going to be this gap

662
00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:59,430
like, for such a long time,
trying to make sure it's all

663
00:36:48,482 --> 00:36:52,211
that she is trying to fill, but
she also feels inadequate to do

664
00:36:52,270 --> 00:36:55,525
that job. So I think she's
speaking from a place of not

665
00:36:55,585 --> 00:36:59,018
wanting to commit herself to
keeping a correspondence, and

666
00:36:59,077 --> 00:37:02,806
also probably just the stress of
having to correspond with John

667
00:37:02,865 --> 00:37:06,594
Adams, right? Like, she already
waited two weeks to try to find

668
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:05,100
right.

669
00:37:06,653 --> 00:37:10,560
a clean piece of paper to write
to him. You can just imagine that.

670
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:17,450
Emily Sneff: Trying to make sure
that she has as much in there as

671
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:21,350
possible. Like, there is
definitely anxiety baked into

672
00:37:21,380 --> 00:37:25,280
her writing, and so I don't
think that she really wanted to

673
00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:30,260
commit herself to continuing to
correspond. And I feel bad

674
00:37:30,260 --> 00:37:33,020
because, like, I would love to
have more letters of hers to

675
00:37:33,050 --> 00:37:36,050
read and get her account of the
things that were happening

676
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:39,380
around her, but at least we have
this one from such an important

677
00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:42,050
moment of receiving the
Declaration of Independence,

678
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:44,870
like if you were going to pick a
moment to have correspondence,

679
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:48,800
this is the moment to pick. So,
yeah, it's unfortunate that she

680
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,110
didn't keep a correspondence
with John. She did write a

681
00:37:51,110 --> 00:37:55,820
little bit with Abigail while
John and Abigail were in Europe

682
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,360
during his diplomatic career.
And those letters, you know,

683
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,660
they're from a decade later, and
her health has seriously

684
00:38:02,660 --> 00:38:06,830
declined by then, in part due to
her nervous condition

685
00:38:06,830 --> 00:38:11,450
persisting. And those letters
are honestly really sad, because

686
00:38:11,450 --> 00:38:14,420
Abigail is describing all these
wonders that she's seeing in

687
00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:18,080
France and saying, I wish you
could come to Paris like I wish

688
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,820
you could see all of these
things. And Polly, again, takes

689
00:38:22,850 --> 00:38:26,720
a really long time to respond,
not because of a lack of paper,

690
00:38:27,020 --> 00:38:31,760
but because she just can't get
her words on paper. So something

691
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,170
like mentally is blocking her
from writing, and she's

692
00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:39,800
reflecting and saying, I'm
probably never going to see the

693
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,500
things that you're seeing, but
I'm grateful for you telling me

694
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:45,740
about them. You know, I could
never make a journey across the

695
00:38:45,740 --> 00:38:48,950
Atlantic, but at least my friend
did, and she can tell me about

696
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:51,740
it. So it's really
heartbreaking, this dissent from

697
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:55,400
sort of feeling like, oh, I
don't know if I can write to

698
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,910
someone in Congress, to feeling
like I'm never going to have the

699
00:38:58,910 --> 00:39:01,850
experiences that my friends are
having, you know, it's really

700
00:39:01,850 --> 00:39:02,240
sad.

701
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,030
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah, did she
keep up any kind of

702
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:07,040
correspondence with John Adams
after this?

703
00:39:07,250 --> 00:39:11,750
Emily Sneff: There's one more
letter in the Adams papers from

704
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:15,740
when he's preparing to go be
vice president, and she's

705
00:39:15,740 --> 00:39:20,030
helping with this library. And,
you know, I have to imagine that

706
00:39:20,270 --> 00:39:23,540
most of their friendship took
place in person. So just because

707
00:39:23,540 --> 00:39:26,990
there's a 12 year gap in the
archive of the Adams papers

708
00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:29,540
doesn't mean that they didn't
talk to each other for 12 years.

709
00:39:29,660 --> 00:39:32,270
But that letter is really
interesting, because she is

710
00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:35,570
helping out with this process of
cataloging all of his books and

711
00:39:35,570 --> 00:39:38,270
figuring out which books he
wants to take with him. So

712
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:41,360
again, she must be educated,
right? She must have a love of

713
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,780
reading herself, because she's
understanding sort of what books

714
00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:47,990
are necessary for this new
political office that he's

715
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:51,590
taking on. And I love that
letter because there was a book

716
00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:54,530
that the two of them were trying
to find and they couldn't find

717
00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:57,560
it on the shelves of the
library. And after John leaves,

718
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,120
she finds it, and so she says. I
found this book, and it'll be

719
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,650
part of your library unless the
fairy that took it away comes

720
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:10,220
back. She still has this
playfulness to her. You can tell

721
00:40:10,220 --> 00:40:13,670
that they had a sort of
affectionate friendship in

722
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:16,940
person, even though it's not
recorded in more than these

723
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:18,050
handful of letters.

724
00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:20,090
Kathryn Gehred: I think that's
really important to point out,

725
00:40:20,090 --> 00:40:23,750
because we depend so much on
these paper written sources as

726
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,450
historians. But I used to work
on the Martha Washington papers,

727
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:29,090
and there's almost no letters
between her and, you know, her

728
00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:31,790
mom and her father and some of
her siblings. That's because

729
00:40:31,820 --> 00:40:35,030
they were talking to each other
constantly every day. There's

730
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:36,980
almost no letters. And that's
one of the most important

731
00:40:36,980 --> 00:40:39,770
personal relationships that she
had. But then with somebody who,

732
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:41,960
like, maybe you sort of have to
keep up a correspondence with

733
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,060
there might be more letters from
someone. You have to really

734
00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:46,280
think about these human
relationships sometimes.

735
00:40:46,490 --> 00:40:49,430
Emily Sneff: Yeah and you know,
we have the best Abigail Adams

736
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:53,210
letters from the times when she
and John were apart, and that

737
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:56,450
doesn't mean that they didn't
have really deep conversations

738
00:40:56,450 --> 00:40:59,330
about politics and women's
education and all these things

739
00:40:59,330 --> 00:41:03,410
in person, we just happen to
have the records of it from when

740
00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:06,050
they were at a great distance.
And you know, there's a lot of

741
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,380
other emotions that are part of
those letters, too. It's easy to

742
00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:13,460
just kind of assume limitations
on a relationship because of

743
00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:16,760
what survives, but there's
definitely much more there that

744
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:17,630
didn't survive.

745
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:19,820
Kathryn Gehred: It's interesting
that she's worried about her

746
00:41:19,820 --> 00:41:22,010
letter being taken by the
British. Tell me a little more

747
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:22,460
about that.

748
00:41:22,850 --> 00:41:25,670
Emily Sneff: So this is really
interesting, because since it

749
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:30,020
took her so long to write her
response, the war has changed.

750
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:34,250
So at the time that John was
writing to her on July 5 and

751
00:41:34,250 --> 00:41:36,920
enclosing a copy of the
Declaration of Independence for

752
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,940
her, the British ships were just
starting to assemble at Staten

753
00:41:40,940 --> 00:41:43,700
Island over the course of a
couple of days, have started to

754
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:47,150
assemble in another really
interesting moment of timing, of

755
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:49,580
like, what if they had come
before the Declaration of

756
00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:53,480
Independence? So by the time
that she's writing in August,

757
00:41:53,570 --> 00:41:57,800
there is a real like, minute by
minute threat of a British

758
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,370
attack on New York. And New York
is obviously right in the middle

759
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,930
between Boston and Philadelphia.
So she is worried that this

760
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,250
increased British presence at
New York will mean that whatever

761
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:13,820
networks John is using to get
correspondence to Boston are

762
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:17,120
going to be interrupted. And you
know, this is a concern that

763
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,030
Abigail Adams and other people
in Boston have as well, that

764
00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:22,730
Boston is going to be
effectively cut off from

765
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:27,020
Philadelphia by what's happening
in New York. So whereas her

766
00:42:27,020 --> 00:42:30,860
first letter in June of 1776
before any British ships had

767
00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:35,720
arrived, she signs it with her
name. In this August letter, she

768
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,110
uses her pseudonym, and on the
one hand, it's kind of reaching

769
00:42:39,110 --> 00:42:43,070
back into their younger times of
friendship when they use these

770
00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:46,010
pseudonyms in a sort of playful
way, but the same way that

771
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:48,590
Abigail Adams chooses to write
under a pseudonym to her

772
00:42:48,590 --> 00:42:52,040
husband, there's this real
awareness of the political

773
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,910
stakes of writing to someone
like John Adams, so she

774
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:58,790
recognizes that even if the
British intercepted it, they

775
00:42:58,790 --> 00:43:01,190
wouldn't get that much
information out of her. She's

776
00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:05,000
not sending political secrets or
anything, but she is giving her

777
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,880
account of what she thinks of
independence. And that is pretty

778
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,930
remarkable. So there were
definitely concerns, and

779
00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:15,080
ultimately, some of John Adams'
correspondence is intercepted by

780
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,680
the British. So they were not
unfounded concerns, and it's

781
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,200
really interesting to see them
reflected on the page.

782
00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:23,570
Kathryn Gehred: I feel like she
threw a couple little digs at

783
00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:25,910
the Tories and, like, just in
case she did.

784
00:43:26,350 --> 00:43:29,320
Emily Sneff: Yeah. I mean, we
think of Massachusetts as being

785
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,070
this sort of, you know, radical
part of the colonies turned

786
00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:35,920
states. You know, Massachusetts
dragging the rest of the states

787
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,250
toward independence, but there
certainly were still loyalists

788
00:43:39,250 --> 00:43:42,550
in Boston. Many of them had
evacuated with the British in

789
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:48,040
March of 1776 but there are
still Tories around. And so she

790
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,700
can tell John, this is what
everyone that we agree with

791
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:54,730
thinks about the Declaration of
Independence. I don't know what

792
00:43:54,730 --> 00:43:57,520
the Tories think. They haven't
said anything yet. You know, I

793
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,130
think that's really interesting
perspective that, like she

794
00:44:00,130 --> 00:44:03,610
understands that the majority of
people are excited about

795
00:44:03,610 --> 00:44:07,330
independence, and she certainly
is, but there are still kind of

796
00:44:07,330 --> 00:44:10,510
enemies within neighbors who
don't agree with this decision.

797
00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:13,840
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah. So what
strikes you as important about

798
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,260
the way she receives the gift of
the Declaration of independency,

799
00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:17,920
as she calls it?

800
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,840
Emily Sneff: There are a couple
things that make this letter

801
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,380
really remarkable. The first is
that despite doing a lot of

802
00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:29,150
research, I've only been able to
find three accounts of women in

803
00:44:29,150 --> 00:44:33,140
their own words reacting to the
Declaration of Independence in

804
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:37,190
1776 and all three of those
women are in Massachusetts. So

805
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:41,870
it's it's a very skewed sample
size, unfortunately. One is

806
00:44:41,870 --> 00:44:45,140
Polly Palmer. The other is
probably obvious. It's Abigail

807
00:44:45,140 --> 00:44:48,590
Adams reacting multiple times
because she receives a copy from

808
00:44:48,590 --> 00:44:51,800
John and she attends a public
reading, and then she hears it

809
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,130
read again in her church in
August. So we have these

810
00:44:55,220 --> 00:44:59,420
different moments of reception.
And then the third one is from a

811
00:44:59,450 --> 00:45:03,740
teenage. Her name's Kezia
Coffin, who was on the island of

812
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:07,790
Nantucket. She kept a diary, and
when the declaration is brought

813
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:11,930
over to Nantucket, she writes in
her diary that it was horrible,

814
00:45:12,110 --> 00:45:14,780
and she wished that the
Continental Congress and all of

815
00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:17,960
their supporters had been strung
50 feet in the air before they

816
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,210
had been allowed to issue this
declaration.

817
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:21,230
Kathryn Gehred: Strong words

818
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:24,750
Emily Sneff: Yeah, at least I
have one Tory perspective. And

819
00:45:24,750 --> 00:45:27,330
also, you know, all three of
these women, they understand the

820
00:45:27,330 --> 00:45:29,880
politics that are happening
around them, which is really

821
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,300
awesome to see, but that's it.
So Polly Palmer's letter stands

822
00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:37,530
out, and it's kind of been
forgotten, because her copy of

823
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,380
Declaration of Independence, to
our knowledge, does not survive.

824
00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:45,180
So the letter that John Adams
sent on July 5 of 1776 in

825
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:49,830
closing, the declaration became
a collectible. It was collected

826
00:45:49,830 --> 00:45:52,920
by someone who was interested in
his autograph, more than the

827
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,670
content of the letter or the
recipient. So we don't know if

828
00:45:56,670 --> 00:46:00,510
the copy of the declaration was
something that Polly held on to

829
00:46:00,780 --> 00:46:03,210
or something that she
immediately handed over to her

830
00:46:03,210 --> 00:46:06,660
father or shared with her
community. But to our knowledge,

831
00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:09,630
it doesn't survive. And from my
perspective, that doesn't mean

832
00:46:09,630 --> 00:46:12,870
that the story doesn't need to
be told. Right? We tend to

833
00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:17,790
prioritize and emphasize the
Select copies of the declaration

834
00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:21,780
that survive and are valued at
millions of dollars, and, you

835
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:25,650
know, highly prized. But there
are also sort of gaps in the

836
00:46:25,650 --> 00:46:29,550
archives that are worth
exploring and thinking about how

837
00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:33,630
Polly Palmer became separated
from the declaration that she

838
00:46:33,630 --> 00:46:37,560
received. I think her
explanation of how she feels

839
00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:40,980
about the declaration is really
interesting, too. It's different

840
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,030
than the other accounts that we
have. And I think it reflects a

841
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:49,380
sort of relief of, you know,
knowing that, in John Adams

842
00:46:49,380 --> 00:46:52,680
words, that blue skies, you
know, clear skies, are going to

843
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,200
come over Boston, that there's
going to be this hopefulness.

844
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,500
And I love her phrasing of like,
it's happy, it's a happy

845
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:02,280
revolution, right? Independence
is a happy thing. She also

846
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,220
though thinking about the
gendered language here. She

847
00:47:05,220 --> 00:47:08,280
talks about how the declaration
is going to be remembered for

848
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,940
generations to come. She knows
that John Adams is involved in

849
00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:14,850
the process. She may not know
exactly that he was helping to

850
00:47:14,850 --> 00:47:18,150
draft it, but she knows that
he's part of the Congress. And

851
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:22,020
she talks about how it's going
to be to the esteem of patriots,

852
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,770
and she uses masculine pronouns,
so she's not counting herself as

853
00:47:25,770 --> 00:47:28,860
a patriot. She's talking about
John Adams and his colleagues as

854
00:47:28,860 --> 00:47:31,680
the patriots who are going to be
remembered by generations of

855
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,670
Americans to come. And that's
kind of sad, because she clearly

856
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:39,030
has a grasp on the importance of
the moment that she's living

857
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:42,090
through these unprecedented
times, but she doesn't think

858
00:47:42,090 --> 00:47:45,960
she's going to be remembered. So
part of my work of really

859
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,990
writing about her and focusing
on this letter is to show she is

860
00:47:48,990 --> 00:47:52,500
worthy of being remembered
alongside John Adams, and you

861
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:55,050
know, the people who signed the
declaration that, like her,

862
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,800
reception of the news of
independence is important, and

863
00:47:58,860 --> 00:48:01,800
she shouldn't just be poor at
Polly. She shouldn't be a

864
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,820
footnote. She should really be
someone that we look to as an

865
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:08,790
example of what it was like to
learn about the Declaration of

866
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:10,200
Independence for the first time.

867
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,130
Kathryn Gehred: That's awesome.
And look at us 250, years later.

868
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:14,700
Emily Sneff: Yeah!

869
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,750
Kathryn Gehred: Who would have
thought

870
00:48:15,780 --> 00:48:17,220
Emily Sneff: Women lifting up
women, right?

871
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,520
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah, so you're
sort of dragging Polly kicking

872
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,950
and screaming back into the
historical narrative, but she

873
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:23,550
deserves it.

874
00:48:23,580 --> 00:48:26,070
Emily Sneff: She did not want to
be a historiographer. She didn't

875
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:28,950
want to keep up a
correspondence, but her letter

876
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:31,530
is remembered, or at least it's
going to be remembered by me.

877
00:48:31,770 --> 00:48:35,130
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah. Oh, that's
awesome. Well, Emily, thank you

878
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:38,220
so much for coming on the show.
This was such a fascinating and

879
00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:39,300
enlightening conversation.

880
00:48:39,330 --> 00:48:42,150
Emily Sneff: Oh I'm so glad. I'm
really glad that we were able to

881
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:46,020
highlight this letter and Polly
and prepare for the 250 by

882
00:48:46,020 --> 00:48:48,690
talking about women writing
about the declaration.

883
00:48:49,170 --> 00:48:53,580
Kathryn Gehred: Yeah, write on!
To my listeners, thank you very

884
00:48:53,580 --> 00:48:57,210
much for tuning into the show. I
will link to the letters that we

885
00:48:57,210 --> 00:49:02,160
talked about in our show notes,
and as ever, I am your most

886
00:49:02,190 --> 00:49:05,040
obedient and humble servant.
Thank you very much.

887
00:49:09,690 --> 00:49:14,284
Your Most Obedient & Humble
Servant is a production of R2

888
00:49:14,364 --> 00:49:18,717
Studios, part of the Roy
Rosenzweig Center for History

889
00:49:18,797 --> 00:49:23,633
and New Media at George Mason
University. I'm Kathryn Gehred

890
00:49:23,714 --> 00:49:28,389
the creator and host of this
podcast. Jeanette Patrick and

891
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:33,144
Jim Ambuske are the executive
producers. Special thanks to

892
00:49:33,225 --> 00:49:37,900
Virginia Humanities for allowing
me to use their recording

893
00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:42,575
studio. If you enjoyed this
episode, please tell a friend

894
00:49:42,655 --> 00:49:47,653
and be sure to rate and review
the series in your podcast app.

895
00:49:47,733 --> 00:49:52,730
For more great history podcasts,
head to R2studios.org. Thanks

896
00:49:52,811 --> 00:49:53,940
for listening!